No dating scan - surely in some cases this could prove a problem?

[HairyToe]

The NHS in my local area does not 'do' 12 week dating scans - your first scan is the 20 week anomaly scan.

My other 2 pregnancies were in a different area so I did have 12 week scans with both of them. I was pretty much gnashing at the teeth by then to be honest - couldn't wait to see something 'real' and convince myself it wasn't all in my head. Also obviously to get some reassurance and mark the end of that so-called magic first trimester which is supposed to be the most risky.So in my case I think I will probably look into having an earlier scan privately.

It just got me thinking though. Surely the point of dating scan is to confirm the woman's own dates and therefore ensure she has the 20 week anomaly scan at the right time. Wouldn't not having a dating scan risk her finding out she was further along than she thought she was? And what if there were problems identified at that point which required a decision to be made re continuing with the pregnancy? This would then be risking a very late termination?

I'm not suggesting this is true in my case (pretty definite about my dates) just wondering hypotherically. Are there other ways for medical professionals to ascertain how far along you are without a dating scan?

On the other hand, some trusts offer ONLY a 12 weeks scan.

No abnormality scan.

I only had a dating one because I'd had one cycle after ERPC and it was a looong one, I also had intermittent spotting.

I think that was something that I was trying to highlight when I was typing my posts Expat...but I kind of got carried away on other issues.

Where there is only a 12wk scan....there is effectively very minimal chance of picking up anomolies. That IMO is significantly disadvantaging mothers - far more so than those who only get the 20wk scan.

I guess I have tried to argue the point that many of the issues which people have raised wrt not having 12wk scan (i.e. 4wk+ errors in dates; twins...) can and should be detected in a routine MW clinic. I must also therefore argue the point that women MUST be having at least some physical exam from 12wk-ish to check fundal height in particular. I was kind of assuming that where there is no 12wk scan there is more emphasis on MW care up to 20wks. It sounds as though that is not necessarily the case....which is an issue IMO.

I think it is dangerous to only have 2 appointments in third trimester. I am shocked at that.

I think I had appointments 4weekly from about 24wks...increasing to 2weekly/weekly at the end.

Yeah but if your Bp shoots up at 29wks you ain't gonna know for 7wks!!!

Just came back to this and I can't believe the amount of discussion that has gone on in my absence!

So sorry to hear some of your sad experiences discovering anomalies at the 20 week scan. And of course the 'missed miscarriages' which have been found at the 12 week scan. Although like Slightlymad I would have assumed the mw would be doing heartbeat and fundal height (thanks SMS!)checks before then? I can't believe some of the stories on here about the apparent lack of mw antenatal care till so late on the pregnancy. I know we are supposed to be against the over-medicalisation of pregnancy and "in the old days etc etc" but surely a certain level of monitoring is, if not necessary exactly, then desirable.

Its dawning on me now though - I think I remember a friend of mine in my local area complaining at 13 weeks that she hadn't been seen yet and thought she'd been forgotten. I think in light of all this I'd better get along to the doctors next week and find out what the score is in terms of early ante-natal care here..

Thanks for all of your responses as it has certainly made things a bit clearer in my mind for when I have that discussion. Although it is clear it is quite a contentious issue - I'm not sure I realised that when I posed the question.

Starlight - sorry you're receiving such a crap and potentially dangerous service.

With my first I went to GP with my wee wee expecting him to do somehting. Told him I had a BFP. And he realled off at double pace all the doos and don'ts. and what appointments to make when.

With DD3 I rang receptionist and asked to book appointment with MW at the appropiate time (about 10wks I think). Didn't see the point wasting GPs time as I was comfortable with it all.

I guess what I am tryying to say is that with your first you go via GP who will (hopefully) give/point you in direction of more info. With subsequents - you do what feels comfortable whcih can you lead to you skipping parts of the process that a first timer would stumble across.

I think first times get a few extra MW appointments. They do round here anyway.

I ended up taking my wee wee ome BTW. He wan't interested.

I've never had a 12 week scan that wasn't a nuchal scan - isn't that what all hospitals are moving towards now anyway, given that the nuchal is a much better test than the triple test bloods? The fact they checked all was as it should be at that stage was also reassuring. Dates were pretty incidental, although maybe because mine were right both times.

! ! !

not sure what to say to that Starlight

In comparison to that I've been treated like a princess in the past

Slinkie.

I think that they try and do a Nuchal at 12wks as part of the dating scan here. It is not obligatory though and if babe is not in a position/size to so it they don't do it and you don't get recalled for one. They have moved the dating scan to 13wks rto be more sure they can do it.

BUT the hosp looked at my notes and decided that I had a 4week cycle and booked my scan for 11+5 - despite the fact my MW had taken my 36d cyle into account and clearly written on my notes that I was close to 11+5. Sonographer was annoyed I wasn't closer to 13wks which I would have been if I had a 4wk cycle.

As a reslt of admin failing to read (only reading the box they want to read) I didn't get a Nuchal measurement as babe was too small.

Quick update. I went to see my GP yesterday to discuss what I could expect in terms of monitoring in early pregnancy and the fact that this area does not offer the 12 week scan. I fully expected her to downplay the importance of the scan and say it wasnt a problem - maybe even imply I was being a bit of a fusspot. I was completey wrong. She said she thinks its outrageous that some area don't offer this scan. She thinks its a really important tool for ascertaining the viability of the pregnancy and the number of foetuses present and dating the pregnancy accurately in order that subsequent ante-natal checks are done at the 'correct' time. She pretty much advised me to get a private scan and gave me a leaflet with the telephone number of the scanning department.

Apparently there are moves afoot here to start offering the scan to everyone on the NHS but uunfortunately this won't be for a while yet so I will still have to pay.

She also said that I wouldn't be seeing a midwife until around 12 weeks at the earliest. And if they couldn't heartbeat then they would probably still not refer you for a scan (as it may be too early to hear) and would be advosed to come back in a couple of weeks and they'll try again. So in the case of a mmc you could get to 14 or 15 weeks before you knew.

She was very nice and has just had a baby herself in the neighbouring area where they do have 12 week scans and midwife appts from 8 weeks. It does seem a bit unfair that NHS benefits across the country seem to differ. Surely if we are all paying the same contributions we should all be receiving a comparable service?

Just found this old thread of mine. I'd forgotten I posted this to be honest. Turned out my concerns re not having a dating scan were very pertinent.

I did pay for a private 12 week scan in the end and discovered the baby had died at around 7 weeks but my body still showed no signs of realising I was no longer pregnant. I don't know how long I would have gone without knowing if I hadn't opted for the private scan .

Not important in the grand scheme of things but I still had to pay.

Oh and I checked - despite having this sad experience I still wouldn't be entitled to an early scan in my (potential) next pregnancy although obviously I'll be beside myself with anxiety and will probably be trying to book a private scan every other day!