No dating scan - surely in some cases this could prove a problem?

[HairyToe]

The NHS in my local area does not 'do' 12 week dating scans - your first scan is the 20 week anomaly scan.

My other 2 pregnancies were in a different area so I did have 12 week scans with both of them. I was pretty much gnashing at the teeth by then to be honest - couldn't wait to see something 'real' and convince myself it wasn't all in my head. Also obviously to get some reassurance and mark the end of that so-called magic first trimester which is supposed to be the most risky.So in my case I think I will probably look into having an earlier scan privately.

It just got me thinking though. Surely the point of dating scan is to confirm the woman's own dates and therefore ensure she has the 20 week anomaly scan at the right time. Wouldn't not having a dating scan risk her finding out she was further along than she thought she was? And what if there were problems identified at that point which required a decision to be made re continuing with the pregnancy? This would then be risking a very late termination?

I'm not suggesting this is true in my case (pretty definite about my dates) just wondering hypotherically. Are there other ways for medical professionals to ascertain how far along you are without a dating scan?

Anomalies where there are fetal hydrops or lack of proper scull formation are usually detected 1st time at 12wk scan if offered. Both these things are common with many syndromes/chromosone problems. Therefore can be investigated sooner to find out the cause.

Skull even

Hi SlightlyMadSweet, you are right the 12 week scan is in most cases reassurance & dating but at this point I was also tested for Downs & Edwards syndrome as well as getting the reassurance that Placenta structure was normal, Amniotic fluid was normal and skull, brain, spine, abdomen, stomach, bladder hands & feet were all visible.

LaComtesse - I find your slightly disparaging remark about the lady who had the 6 week scan slightly rude. I also had one of these as having suffered 2 m/c's in the previous 6 months. This was my opportunity to get some indication that this pregnancy was viable and unlike the previous 2 attempts that although there was no guarentee there was a functioning heartbeat and I was unlikely to lose my baby before the week was out . The fact that I managed to sleep that night for the first time in 3 weeks made it worth every penny

Sidge - snap. I am also a Hampshire girl so only get a 16 week scan. Seems really weird, the worst of both situations. Have to wait till 16 weeks for reassurance/dating but as its not as late as 20 weeks I boubt it would pick up all problems that a 20 week scan would!

but just because something is visible doesn't mean it isn't abnormal.

Don't get me wrong I am not against 12wk scans. But I think that there is some suggestion here that they have more value than they do in the area of anomolies.

Yes some anomolies can be detected (if they are looked for which isn't always the case). The impact of the 12wk scan for anomoly checking is far far below that of the 20wks scan.

I didn't think my mw checked my uterus until I was over 20 weeks - could be wrong though.
And yes, HT, iswym, if the woman is way out, she could end up having her '20 week' scan at 24 or 25 weeks

I am no pregnant any more because when i went for my 12 week scan in february it was discovered that i had had a missed miscarriage at 9 weeks. I think it is disgusting that women are not routinly offered a 12 week scan as over the last few month so have spoken to so many women who have had the same experience as me. one poor lass had got to her anomaly scan only to be told the baby had died at 10 weeks or so

WorzselMummage, what a distressing experience , I wish you a speedy recovery and lot's of luck for your next attempt if you decide to go down this road again.

yeah it was really shit !

It would have been even worse if if have been left till 15 or 20 weeks till i worked out something was wrong.

I had 2 early scans with that pregnancy too and and 1 with my daughter and 2 with each of the pregnancies i miscarried before her, you might not have felt you needed one LaComtesse but i can assure you i did.

If a woman needs a scan, even for reassurance she should be able to have one without forking out hundreds of pounds.

oh and thanks merryoncemore

What I was saying is that I think both the 12wk and 20wk scan are EQUALLY important for their own reasons. Everybody should be offered both and I think it's disgraceful that there is so much diversity over this throughout the country

Worzsel - so very sorry to hear of your sad loss

No STarlight......cycle length should be taken into account as well as the actual date of LMP. My community MW always has (hospital booking the scan always tell me off for going too early - until I point out that my notes clearly say I am 11wks not 12wk).

And I am sorry for the losses mentioned. In the case of the 20wk case I think the community MW was almost equally to blame. By 20wks she should have picked up that the fundal height was wrong and possibly lack of hb.

Yes there is a place for a 12 wk scan (or the NHS wouldn;t do it) but it is not anomoly.

It is dating (which gets less accurate after about 13/14wks)
It is viability (which is not the same as anomoly)
It is minimal anomoly.

If I didn't get a 12wk scan it wouldn't concern me. In fact I almost chose a hospital that only did 20wk scans in preference to the one that did both when I was pg with DD3. Unfortunately I was restricted because of potential complictions.

Thats part of the reason they are unnecessary.

If a woman is confident on dates and cycle times they willalways be more accurate than a scan. Unfortunately there is sometimes too much emphasis put on the accuracy of hte scan.

Slightly - Nobody is saying that the 12wk scan is an anomoly scan. Only that is can and does sometimes pick up problems with baby at that stage. Imo that can only be a good thing??

I agree with you womb. BUT it should not be interpretted as anomoly scan. If people think that anomolies are a purpose of it it will potentially give false reassurance.

Not to put too fine a point on things, but after an ectopic pregnancy you soon see the value of scans in all their wonderful varieties, esp early ones. I definitely take the view its the better to be safe than sorry and opt for all the scans. But it is true that they can sometimes be confusing - they will tell you info which can be hard to know what to do with at times. Also, some of the latest scaning machines are SO powerful and I guess will just get more so, this is likely to increase anxiety in some cases...unless the research as to what is 'normal' or not keeps pace with the technology development ifswim

I had scans at 8, 12, 20, 22, 34,36,37,38 weeks - talk about going overboard! I was automatically given an 8wk one as I had had 2 m/c's, 12 & 20wk were standard but had an extra at 22 as they hadn't manage to see everything at 20.

The 4 at the end of my pg were because they were worried about the growth. I explained from my 1st appt with MW that my cycles werent the requisit 28, I could even tell the the day I OV'd!!! but I was NEVER listened to

I agree that everyone should get 12 & 20 week ones.

spotty did that just increase your anxiety in the end, all of those scans?

Twins can be identified by fundal height (by 12wks) and referal for scan to confirm. It doesn't have to be at 12wk scan.

I don't know much about ectopics but from the limted info I have seen on here 12wks would be too late they are normally diagnosed long before 12wks and if they havn't they surely would have ruptured (at least in teh case of a fallopian ectopic.

Anyway. I may move away from this. I think I am being mis-understood. I am not arguing against 12wk scans per se. I am alsoonly talking about routine 12wks scans. They should of course be made available for some groups (e.g. previous m/c, high risk downs etc...) I am just saying that there is usually nothing lost by not having them. There are of course exceptions but a benefit/cost analysis probably says that the cost outways the benefit...which is sadly the way hte NHS works. And if it meant we could get more cancer therapies or funds for in home carers to the likes of Steve & MrBishop then I would happily see routine 12wk scans scrapped.

Absolutely!!!!!

V paranoid, kept getting the BBT Charts out to check & check & check I definately had my dates right!

Am with SMS on this. Unless there is a specific reason for early scanning, ie previous history of miscarriage/bleeding/possibility of ectopic, routine dating scans like this are unnecessary imo. They are not anomaly scans and should not be viewed as such.

Am that someone could get to 20 weeks before finding out the baby had died. I?d had my booking in apt with mw at 13 weeks and an ante-natal at 17/18 weeks and on each occasion I heard my baby?s heartbeat. Why on earth did this woman not receive any ante-natal care before her anomaly scan?

I don't have my 'dating' scan booked in until I am 16 weeks (it's on Tues). I haven't seen a m/w, so haven't heard a heartbeat at all. Won't have booking-in until 18 weeks as they do it after scan here. So v.grateful I am getting something at this point, even though it's 4 weeks late! And presumably from some of the posts here, totally pointless from a dating perspective. Without this scan, if I AM having twins I wouldn't find out until 18 weeks as no chance of a fundal check until then - am I right in this?

I do agree though that aside from groups that have a definite need, routine scans aren't necessary and the money could be used to fund something more important than reassuring us that our dates are right! Earlier booking-in and more regular m/w-led care could address at least some of the issues raised on this thread.