Pre Birth Initial Child Protection Conference

[BettyBlue712]

Hi Mumsnet

I hope this is posted in the correct place.

I was recently referred children’s service whilst pregnant. This initially began as a ‘section 17 assessment’. I have been told they are now holding a strategy meeting for a ‘section 47 assessment’ and it will be going to a pre birth initial child protection conference.

I have been told that even before the strategy meeting, assessment and conference my child will be placed on the minimum of a child protection plan whilst pregnant and after birth.

I’m slightly confused as I thought the next step after child protection was removal at birth?

Could anyone advise me on what to expect over the next couple of months, I’m in my second trimester so a little bit to go…

Does the confirmation of a cp early on in pregnancy pretty much mean removal at birth? It’s difficult as I’m trying to predict what the social workers are going to do before they tell me.

Sorry I might have missed it, but what are you wanting them to apologise for?

Sorry, I meant I will apologise when they call

A family member has a similar diagnosis. As it’s your first baby, they will just want to be sure you will be capable of caring for it appropriately. This might mean arranging for you to stay in an MBU or mother & baby foster home when it is born - so you can be supported and supervised and they can see how you get on.

if you have no previous history that would indicate putting a child in harm, then it would be vanishingly rare for them to remove your baby without even giving you a chance to prove you can do it.

its imperative you go to every appointment and meeting and are fully engaged because this will form part of the picture of whether they think you’ll be able to parent your child or not when it’s born. Attending midwife appointments is important for the health of your child, and so not going will be considered not putting your child first.

good luck!

Thank you for your reply!

Can I ask if your family member has a similar diagnosis and a child, what happened with their baby?

I am attending every appointment and put a lot of support in place over the past few days. I hope that actually finding my own support, calling the various different services and saying to them ‘please can you support me, I really need your help for mine and my baby’s health’ hopefully shows that I am committed!

Yes, they were in an MBU for several months as they had an “episode” a little while after the birth but she is now doing very well and at home with baby.

one very important thing is having a good, strong support system, the services need to be confident that someone will be able to keep an eye day-to-day if you are not under official supervision. But it sounds like you have that in your mum.

I’m so glad she is going better now! Do you mind me asking if she was also under children’s services?

My mum lives round the corner and has offered to move on/me move in with her if needs be.

I can't promise that your Children's Services is the same but our local one is very focussed on 'signs of safety' so rather than looking at the negatives they are looking for what supports you have in place and your awareness of your issues. So your Mum and any other supportive people you have are a huge plus. You being willing to engage with services is another huge plus. What they are looking for is knowing that, if you are struggling or have an episode or anything like that, you have people around you who will pick up on that and step in to protect the wee one and you, contacting services if needed.

I hope they are as my Mum is a really good support. I can evidence that too as she’s taken me to hospital in the past when I’ve been really poorly. When I was in hospital a few years ago she came to visit every day that she could. When I was first diagnosed and the most unwell I’ve been she basically cared for me and nursed me back to health, managing all my medication, cooking, even down to washing my hair when I really couldn’t.

She’s honestly just amazing and is going to be the world’s best grandmother to her grandchild!

I don’t know if anyone will read this as I’ve been quiet for a few days.

Am I best off to apologise to social worker via text before she reaches out to me again or wait until she contacts me?

There’s things I do need to apologise to her for but there’s 2 things I feel really uncomfortable about her doing, but I don’t want to bring them up and cause further issues.

1. Is her contacting my ex partner to tell him she feels I’m mentally unwell.

If she thinks I’m unwell I would rather her approach me and we can have a discussion about me or alternatively ring my mental health team.

2. Is her ridiculing me for considering a termination.

I understand she has a report to write but I don’t think it’s humane for her to use me considering an abortion as a negative or that I ‘don’t love my child’ etc. Hundreds of thousands of women have abortion each year, many already have children and many go on to have children at a later date and I think a women consider termination but decide against it. I feel like using me calling up Marie Stopes for advice (didn’t even book a consultation) as a negative is starting to invade a women’s right to reproductive and sexual healthcare?

TIA and I hope you’ve had a lovely weekend :)

Yes, I think a text in advance is a great idea. Set it up so she is not coming into your meeting feeling so defensive and annoyed.

Re your concerns -

Is her contacting my ex partner to tell him she feels I’m mentally unwell.
Very gently, I dont think this is reasonable. Her focus is going to be on safety and in certain circumstances, telling someone in advance you have concerns may make the situation more dangerous.

Is her ridiculing me for considering a termination.
Without knowing exact words and tone it is really hard to comment on this. Yes, it is totally unacceptable and would be hard to rebuild trust with her. But - again very gently - the more anxious we are, the more our ability to take in and respond to what people are saying is compromised. From what you said, it sounds like you got really upset so is it possible that you took something the wrong way? Not saying you did, just that it is a possibility - it is certainly something I have experienced with people.

(1) You are mentally unwell. Your thread(s) make this quite clear to those reading.

Your SW speaking to babys father about this is normal and expected. The SW will have already spoken to your MH team, that will be part of the S47 assessment. Again normal and expected.

The SW may have reasonably considered if talking to you about this might increase the risk to your baby. It would be reasonable to understand why the SW could have seen this as increasing the risk to baby - you were talking about leaving the country or abortion. So not inflaming you (so not challenging your perception) may have been a deliberate choice by the SW to keep your baby safe

(2) You use the word "ridicule" when I'd use the word "challenge".

You voiced that rather than face a social care assessment (designed to keep your baby safe), you'd rather have an abortion.

It's not about wanting an abortion or not. The SWs (reasonable and normal) issue is why you wanted that abortion.

All of this.
Any woman who says she'd rather leave the country than have another baby taken away from her should be treated with great care, in case she makes good on her threat and endangers her unborn child.

I have a mental illness, I am not acutely mentally unwell. I live with a diagnosis but haven’t been classed as unwell in a few years.

SW hasn’t spoken to my mental health team as yet but I’m aware as part of my assessment she has to. She said to my ex partner that I was acutely unwell, if I was a professional who had found a pregnant patient acutely unwell I would ring mental health/crisis team/ambulance. Surely this seems more sensible?

I don’t think you’ve gone through a social care assessment and been told your child will be on a minimum of child protection. I was absolutely terrified and considered a termination because I was unsure I could deal with the unknown; would my baby be removed in a few months?

This is my only thread. It’s also quite unhelpful stating some ‘is mentally unwell’ I don’t think people would ever labour on the point of someone having cancer but mental health seems to be fair game

I said to her “I have a couple of weeks to decide”(on the abortion) and she said “you’d have an abortion at X amount of weeks, that’s disgusting”

As someone with a mental health diagnosis this thread proves that a lot of people aren’t willing to accept us as mothers. It’s my genuine fear that children’s services feel this way too.

Just say you think my child should be removed at birth and I should be sterilised. Unlike the drug addicts who have an ‘illness’

Nooones said that, just that you prioritising your wants and needs above your child's safety is a huge negative.

You are catastrophising @BettyBlue712.

SW hasn’t spoken to my mental health team as yet but I’m aware as part of my assessment she has to. She said to my ex partner that I was acutely unwell

She has. Before your unborn child became subject to a S47 assessment, there was a strategy meeting. Someone from your MH team, and your midwife, would have been invited to this.

The decision you were "acutely unwell" would not be decided by your SW. A mental health professional has told your SW this. So your SW is acting on professional opinions.

I’ve said numerous times that what I originally said came from a place of fear.

If you read the thread then it’s clear I’m prioritising my baby my putting support in place and I’m asking for advice on how to make amends with children’s services.

I think it’s very clear that I’m not about to evade children’s service by leaving the country.

They’ve not started the section 47 assessment yet.
There’s a strategy meeting this week with regards to starting one. I’m sorry if I didn’t make this clear.

There was a section 17 assessment but at this point the only people the sw has spoken to is me and my ex partner. She had told my ex partner I was unwell before she called me to ask for the names and numbers of my mental health team.

Didn't the MH team make the safeguarding referral?

Not my standard mental health team.

When I found out I was pregnant I was referred to Special Perinatal Mental Health and had an assessment with them. I was accepted onto their team and told a referral would need to be put in due to my risk factors for post partum psychosis.

I was told it would likely be ‘opened and closed’ or a child in need as a potential. I can understand their need for a referral as the reality is I have been under the MHA during my adult life.

I made some really shitty choices and chose to not engage with children’s services as I was so scared.
I now understand that I need to work with them as they just want baby to be safe. I’d really like to rectify things with the social worker and build a better relationship.

I wanted to add that I’ve not been under MHA or in a hospital for nearly 3 years. I haven’t needed A&E or Crisis Team in 2.5 years either.

It’s not like I was sectioned last week…

Op. I mean this gently but on the first you were not privy to the conversation and things can get lost in the passing. And on the second I don’t feel she “ridiculed “ you, unless you have omitted some details, it’s important she understands your plans and views, so this area needs to be questioned so she understands what you are considering.

Thanks for your response.

I guess it’s more I don’t want her to document ‘this lady was considering a termination at X weeks and therefore does not love or care for her child’

If it was a genuine question, then fair enough, but if it’s going to be used against me in order to build a case to remove baby, I think that’s pretty shoddy.

I know you were/are scared and that affected your responce.

However, your questions tonight show a lack of self-awareness, that you don't understand that the SW actions are protecting your child and so in turn raise questions about your ability to priotise your child's safety above your own wishes and feelings?

What if you feel acutely scared and frightened again? What will you do?