did you refuse iron tests, urine tests, bp checks, doppler checks etc?

[nappyaddict]

if so why? i can understand refusing tests that find out abnormalities if you wouldn't terminate anyway but i can't understand why people refuse those mentioned above.

ok well, little is understood about why some women develop it, and why it happens, it just does... it is a disease that exists, but not sure why it exists, but that does not mean it should be ignored. same for GD surely?

however, why are you so sure that you are right and everyone else is wrong? even when you have been given stats and research ?

i am not an expert on GD by any means but am interested to know why you feel so strongly it is not 'real'

Nuchal is private here as well.

ok, so surely something is producing the change in pregnant women, whether it is GD or something else

anyway, you are entitled to your opinion and to refuse any or all tests.

heesh?

I think LeonieD has a very valid point regarding testing for GD. Peeing on a stick is not an effective diagnostic tool. It is an old practice that we haven't got rid of because 'it's just the way we do things'. This includes the protein because in itself means nothing at all.

And the ranges for the GTT test vary with different labs, as do the approaches for when to begin treatment. I have had many many women (I work with a 'high risk' group) who have come back with a positive GTT, gone through the counselling, finger-pricking (always seeming to be normal), scare-mongering, induction/section, and had perfectly normal babies.

We don't routinely do bs on healthy normal babies - that too would be unethical - so our ranges for hypoglyclemia in the neonate are potentially skewiff too.

I agree that GD is over-diagnosed, with a clear lack of substantiated research. This is not to say that I don't recognise that in some women it is a very serious potential threat to their baby.

I'm also a little disappointed in the lack of respect for LeoniD's opinion . Everyone's opinion is as valid as anyone elses' and we all deserve respect. She's not telling anyone else what they should or shouldn't be doing, just voicing her ideas like the rest of us.

leonie i could cite numerous reputable journals on this topic,but frankly what is the point. you probably dispute anyhow.

PE and GD are recognised contraindications in pg and without management and intervention there will be fatalities

bmj Birth characteristics of women who develop gestational diabetes: population based study

Treating gestational diabetes improves neonatal outcomes"

Perinatal mortality and congenital anomalies in babies of women with type 1 or type 2 diabetes in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland: population based study"

there are strong opinions on both sides, that is different to lack of respect..she and we are all entitled to our opinions, but that does not mean thyey can not or should not be debated or challenged

the NICE guideline states that "the evidence does not support routine screening for gestational diabetes mellitus and therefore it should not be offered" (p19) however once there are established risk factors, v close monitorinhg is indicated

nor does it mean it should be ignored, leaving women to be unwell and potentially have fatal or serious consequences for them and their babies....jsut for the sake of not labelling it

and i have absolutely not made fun of you

you have been challenged and rebuked, but given as good as you have got.

such is the nature of debate when both sides are passionate.

scottishmummy, what is the phrase i am thinking of in relation to PE.. a disease of......

it is in one of my books, but cannot be bothered going up two flights of stairs to get it!

apparently not !

Off the GD track, I find it interesting that so many of you are seen so little in pg - when you are wanting to be seen of course

If a women came to us to confirm pg at say 8 weeks and birthed at 40 ish she would prob be seen at least 12 or 13 times. It sort of goes monthly until 28 weeks, fortnightly until 36, then weekly until birth. Then every day for somewhere between 3 to 7 days after the birth, and weekly for 6 weeks after that. We do heaps of testing then! She is of course seen by the same midwife through the whole time.

I wonder if this has something to do with decisions about declining care, we seem to be seen so often - comparitively?

You're absolutely right lulumama, it just seemed to me that the thread was starting to get a bit personal sometimes

I was actually happy to be seen that often by my midwife .

leonie-clamber down off that big ole cross of yours.stop bemoaning your alleged bad treatment

by alleging mistreatment you actually make yourself look churlish, and immature.

it is a open forum.if you don't want divergent views don't post on an open forum.

LeonieD- I am honestly sorry that you had a rough ride with your pregnancy. However I don't think the solution to that understandable disappointment is to trawl the internet looking for dubious stats to justify your feeling that you were in some way 'duped' into a bad experience. I totally identify with the disappointment you feel over the the way your pg/treatment panned out. To a large degree I share it - I would loved to have had a lovely simple pregnancy and waterbirth (as I had hoped for). However that wasn't the way it happened - and it isn't for many women - partly because of high levels of medical intervention but also because we are different, our pregnancies are all different and sometimes those expectations just can't be met. I for one am hugely grateful for the tests and medical intervention I had - I have two healthy children, I am alive and (importantly) I now am aware that I run a high risk of developing type two diabetes in later life and can take appropriate precautions.

To say that you were 'accused' of GD suggests that you felt you were committing some kind of crime. If your MW/doc made you feel like that then it suggests they need some re-training. It also suggests that you may need some counselling in order to come to terms with what happened/your feelings about 'illness' etc.

But please, do not deal with your disappointment by posting ill-informed opinions like 'GD does not exist'. The majority of readers will realise that this is nonsense but a couple of gullible folks may not and as a result will endanger themselves and their babies. Their 'disappointment' at losing a child as a result will certainly out weigh any 'disappointment' you and I may feel as a result of our successful pregnancies and births not going precisely to plan. You might not WANT GD to exist but it DOES and thanks to the testing a lot of women and babies are saved.

lulu Preeclampsia: an endothelial cell disorder?

janyz - that's roughly the schedule I got in Scotland with both pgs though last one was five years ago so everything might have changed since.

leonie, i have read your birth account.yes dreadful shame you felt so badly treated. no one wants a distressing experience

consider debriefing and birth trauma assoc ask lulu

on MN helpful differentiate between debating your point of view and personalising things. yes some topics are contentious

we have all been on the receiving end and gave it too

Different Lulu here but can also second the recommendation for the birth trauma assoc. Found the website hugely helpful after pph with dd.