MMC, surgical management, and what next?

[meepthebeep]

Hi everyone,

We found out yesterday that our much-wanted first pregnancy has ended in a MMC. I’m 30 and DH is 32. I should have been 11+2 but the baby is only measuring around 6 weeks, so although we have to go back for another scan next week, we’re pretty much certain that this is it.

I think I want to go for surgical management, so that it’s (most likely to be) over in one go as quickly as possible. I know that sounds heartless but we’re so devastated and just want to get through Christmas together and try again in the New Year. How soon did you get booked in for surgery after having things confirmed by a second scan? (if you needed a second scan - I understand why they’re doing one but it feels almost cruel when we know nothing is going to change).

I’ve never had a general anaesthetic and the thought scares me, but I think the idea of a local for this particular procedure scares me more. If you had surgical management, did you go for a GA? Would you recommend it, if recommend is the right word?

After it’s all over, how long did things take to settle for you? We’re basically planning to hunker down and rest/recuperate over Christmas but we’d like to try again in the NY once I’ve got my first period - I think any uncertainty around dates for a next pregnancy would send me round the twist after what we’re going through now.

How long did it take you to have a successful pregnancy? We’re 30 and 32, generally fit and healthy, non-smokers and no underlying conditions that we know of, so hopefully all this is on our side.

Thank you all. So sorry if you’ve been through this too, but really grateful for any advice you can share. X

op I’m sending love and a big un mn hug first of all. I went down this exact rabbit hole so I’m going to post more. But wanted to send this first.

So first of all, I just wanted to reassure you in relation to the risk levels. I worried about this too, I think particularly because when you are miscarrying, you are very vulnerable emotionally, and also physically, with all the hormones and anxiety and stress of making a decision. Ashermans is something which can happen as a result of any surgery and the risk is relatively small. A number of people who have surgical management will have it. However, as I understood the research it is very rare for it to prevent someone conceiving. There are risks of any operation, but statistically the MIST study showed that the conception rate at five years after miscarriage, IIRC was the same FOR ALL METHODS OF MANAGEMENT-NATURAL, MEDICAL AND SURGICAL. THIS MEANS THAT ON A STATISTICAL MASS POPULATION LEVEL, THE RISK OF NOT BEING ABLE TO CONCEIVE AFTER UNDERGOING SURGICAL MANAGEMENT IS NOT STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT.

Sorry I don’t know why this has gone into capitals

I asked my surgeon about it and he said it’s a risk but a small one. I don’t know if this helps

Thank you @MissHavershamReturns

I’m so sorry for being a mess earlier. I’ve taken a couple of hours just to try and relax and calm down. DH is away today and it’s harder when I’m on my own.

I’ll ask the surgeon/doctors/nurses, I’ve noted it down on my list of questions. Thank you so much. And the capitals made me smile 🙂 thank you

How are you op? I’ve been thinking of you a lot.

@MissHavershamReturns thank you for asking, I really appreciate it. I had a better day yesterday than today, I’m not sure why but I suppose it’s just natural ups and downs?

I’ve started bleeding quite a bit more heavily and this evening I have some cramping for the first time as well, so wondering if things will get moving on their own? And then I feel sadness and also relief at that thought, and then guilty for feeling relieved. Complicated, isn’t it? 🙂

thank you again and I’m so sorry for getting all upset on Friday. X

@meepthebeep A hot water bottle helped me and also some pain killers. I found the cramps painful but I have a low pain tolerance.

Is it ok if I update? We had the second scan this morning, confirmed no heartbeat, but the sonographer/nurse saw a second embryo in the same sac. So because that one wasn’t measured before, now we have to go back in a week to see if it grows or changes in that time.

i’m totally numb. It would’ve been twins. And I feel like I can’t wait another week for this hell to be over. I feel awful for hoping they’ll pass naturally now.

Because the two embryos are in the same sac, does anyone know if this changes anything? They split from one embryo, don’t they? So it still looks likely that the single embryo had something the matter with it, rather than it being a recurring problem? I’m worried about what this means for future pregnancies but the nurse said the same thing as before, about it being a 1 in 4 chance etc.

I feel in total shock and numb and so so tired. I thought I’d made my peace with it and it was nearly at an end and now we have to wait another week.

I’ve emailed the Tommy’s midwife helpline as well. I feel like we were starting to come to terms with it and now I just can’t think straight. Will this happen again?

hi, sorry, me again. I’ve been reading about twins sharing the same sac and how rare it is - about 1% of twin pregnancies and 0.1% of all pregnancies overall? It seems as well (based on my brief reading) that the outcomes don’t generally seem to be so good for twins/embryos in the same sac.

So it seems like it all still aligns with the ‘just unlucky’/quirk/one-off thing that we thought it was this time last week, except with more waiting.

My bleeding seems to have stopped today, even though it was quite heavy and crampy last night. I so, so want this to be done soon. I’ve been looking at flights for me and DH just to escape for a few days, maybe over Christmas or afterwards. This is all so much to be in my head. Thank you if you’re reading 🙏🏼

So sorry @meepthebeep - what a shock that must be when you thought you might be getting some closure. I’m not an expert (hopefully someone will come along who knows more) but my understanding is the same as yours - that this is still just a really unlucky occurrence. I hope the next week passes quickly for you until your next scan x

Thank you so much @Wise0wl. My brain’s just been spinning since this morning, I haven’t properly cried because I can’t really take it in. But I agree it looks likely that this is just really, really unlucky. Thank you for being there, this thread has really meant a lot. Hope to see you properly over on the TTC thread soon (although not quite as soon as I thought yesterday) 🙂

I completely understand @meepthebeep, for me, the best way of dealing with my MMC was to look forward, and it’s so hard to do that with yet more waiting. I hope you have some nice distracting things planned over the next week and know we’re all here if you need anything! X

Thank you so much @Wise0wl 💐

Ooh bless you. That is not great news for you and I'm really sorry. So annoying that the second embryo was not seen last week!! Unbelievable. I know it is NHS protocol to wait and see with young embryos but, since they share the same sac they were obviously conceived at the same time so its pretty ridiculous to think otherwise and medically impossible I would have thought.

Yes, it is numbing. I felt a bit like someone had put up a very high brick wall and there was no getting over it or round it just, very painfully, through it to tge other side!

Keep safe and let us know how you get on. Xx

Thank you @Longbarn5, it does seem unbelievable. DH said this evening, of all the things he thought they’d say at the scan, this was absolutely not one of them. I can see why they’re making us wait, and the sonographer even went and got a colleague to scan me too, and then a senior doctor’s second opinion on the scan images, to make sure they were doing everything right. I think understandably they just want everything to be done exactly by the book. Unfortunately, that doesn’t really help us when I’m now bleeding somewhat heavily on and off, and we’re being kept waiting and waiting until the week before Christmas, when it looks like things stopped developing at the start of November, if not before.

From the blood tonight, honestly I’m not sure if we’ll need the scan on Monday. I suppose it’s best to keep the appointment even if I do pass something, in case it’s not everything.

DH and I are just in a state of shock really, and trying to get through. I just can’t believe this is happening really. I go through thinking it will all work out and it’s one of those things to just completely reeling and grieving the little life/lives we thought we were growing. It’s so disorientating. Thank you for being there

My mum also isn’t helping at all. She asked how today had gone and I said I had to go back for a scan again next week and she said, oh I thought you were having one today. And then she said ‘maybe they think the baby is growing!’ Which is honestly the last thing I needed to hear when there’s no hope.

We don’t have the best relationship at the best of times, but that felt really insensitive. Sorry to vent

You are so right about them wanting to just do the right thing but it certainly adds to the pain and stress. Just before our 12 week scan I was reading a thread somewhere on these forums where someone was trying to reassure someone going for their scan, around the same time, that all would be fine, the chances of an MMC at 12 weeks was tiny and they shouldn't be worried. I remember thinking that was so reassuring and then we went in for ours and got that news it was like the world collapsed around us. Couldn't believe we could be so unlucky.
Since then, of course, we have met in life and on these forum, others who have had similar experiences and often around the same timelines and I am beginning to think that it is a lot more common than we are told, even by those who are knowledgeable in the field! I felt like we had been lied to to be honest about the frequency of these things.
We are trying again now. People take different time to recover mentally and we just want to start again but nobody will ever persuade us to wait for a scan at 12 weeks again. We will find the money and have a couple of private ones, Yes, things may go wrong in between but if things do go badly we will know sooner xx

So sorry about your mum @meepthebeep

i think you’re right @Longbarn5 that miscarriages are more common than we think as people don’t talk about them. But I also think MN is a bit of a skewed sample, lots of women come on here because things haven’t gone well or are going wrong in search of answers or hope, so it’s not entirely reflective of the real world where loads of women have successful pregnancies and healthy babies, all the time. Thinking about the bigger picture gave me some hope!

@Longbarn5 I’m so sorry. It really does seem like they’re more common than we’re told. So many people DH and I have spoken to over the last week or so have similar stories.

@Wise0wl yes, I’ll try to keep the bigger picture in mind. Thank you 🙏🏼

Sorry to bump the thread again. I’ve sent an email via the MyCare app to request (beg for) a date for surgical management. When both embryos are in the same sac, I don’t see what use it is waiting another week for another scan with no end date for all of this. DH and I just want to get this resolved before Christmas and it’s getting later and later, we keep being told another week, another week.

If I specifically request surgical management, can they refuse? Surely it’s hopeless at this point to put us through more waiting, especially now I’m bleeding, sometimes heavily, there’s only one way this is going and I just want it over now.

thank you if you’re still reading x

WiseOwl, you are so very right about MN. I think when we come on here we are often seeing the worst side of things xx

I completely agree with you re trying to get a date. That said, NHS protocol may have to be strictly followed. That said, I would hope that a consultant may be able to override if there is one available to do so. I do hope you can get this sorted before Christmas. The timing is so awful for you on too of everything else.
As for your mum, they are a different generation and not always very on the ball about these things unfortunately!

Thank you @Longbarn5. Depending on what the reply is tomorrow, I might phone and ask for a consultant to look at things and hopefully get things moving.

It sounds so morbid but I’ve had two dead embryos inside me for weeks now (although we only found out on 4th) and it’s really messing with my head (and DH’s) 😔