Has anyone COMPLETELY foregone ante-natal treatment?

[expatinscotland]

I reside in a rural area of Western Scotland - Argyll.

Last year, I became pregnant and the treatment was truly appalling - I've had two children in NHS Lothian/Edinburgh.

I suffered a missed miscarriage, and the treatment only made matters worse.

I saw a total of about 8 different midwives at the two hospitals where women in this area have a choice of giving birth and every one of them were horrible.

My own GP even said he hates crossing paths with the midwives here.

Now I am pregnant again, and tbh, I'd get better, more compassionate treatment from most jakeys I've met in pubs around here.

Has anyone just not told their surgery they were pregnant at all?

The game plan is to have a private scan in Edinburgh at 8 weeks and 20 weeks - no GP referral required at one clinic I've checked with there.

Then to go and stay with my SIL in Edinburgh at 37 weeks until the baby's born.

I'll just go to my old surgery as soon as I get there (DH won't be able to join me straightaway because of work and DD1's being in school, so I'll have SIL and MIL as company during the birth) and give birth at Edinburgh Royal Infirmary.

I'm 37 and this is my fifth pregnancy (I've had two miscarriages in the past).

If anything starting going wrong with this pregnancy, I'd as soon take my life in my hands and drive through to Glasgow than set foot in Inverclyde Hospital (I've lodged a formal complaint against them) or Royal Alexandra.

Also NICE guidelines state only something like 7 visits are nessecary so you wont have to see them often.

i had private scan at 8 and 13 weeks and nhs scan at 22

i told midwives and booked in (free prescriptions!)
but am not going back unless called. at 17 weeks felt shit and WROTE to gp for iron test which i had with a nurse

not going back now unless poorly

no point waste of everyones time and monay - stick with plan sounds - well - sound!

Or a slightly more sneaky suggestion - tell your GP you have hired an independent midwife and then do nothing. You can always seek his assistance if you need it and you can always buy sticks to pee on if you are minded too.

Incidentally, I think you have a right not to be referred for care and to refuse care, so even if your GP referred you that doesn't actually mean you have to turn up and see them. I've cancelled one of my consultant appts because I was referred without me requesting it and I think it's bloody pointless.

Unless you are actually sectioned they can't force you to have treatment you know.

But, you do need to look after yourself. You went through such a horrible time last time, and I can understand that you want to do this for your own mental preservation, but take care of your physical health too. (Nag over)

In pg no 4 after 3 mcs, I actually told my GP that I was refusing to see the midwives until 20 weeks. He was quite happy to do doppler, urine and bp tests until I decided to see them (what happened with the midwives after is another story though !)
You can buy the pee sticks very easily from reputable companies on t'internet as you can a doppler, and its not exactly rocket science, but I can't see why GP couldn't /wouldn't do it all for you anyway

one thing that occurs to me though - is whether some sort of decent mental health care in PG might be helpful in terms of trying to stave off/improve potential AND/PND - I do recall you have suffered quite badly in the past.

If your GP is nice then I'd go to him and explain your game plan and ask if he'd do the basic BP etc tests. I can't see how you could be forced to see a MW.

And to answer your OP, a friend's 16yo dd gave birth to an 8lb boy after hiding her pg until she was in labour. No A/N care there at all but the baby was perfectly healthy.

yes that doppler comment is good

i used one daily after a missed m/c made me more edgy - it was invaluable

Hello expat - just wanted to give you my best wishes for this pregnancy. Hope it all goes brilliantly. Second what others have said - try to insist that your GPs do the checks for you - from my experience, if you've had a traumatic time, nice doctors can be quite willing to bend the rules.

I have three friends who decided not to have any antenatal care, two had unassisted births that went well, the third just went into hospital to give birth as she had for her last three without going near a doctor or MW beforehand. She had a placenta praevia this time that they obviously didn't know about (sp?) and ended up with a crash CS, baby deprived of oxygen for some time and into SCBU for several days. Her baby seems to be OK 6 mo later, but it was a very close run thing. Some kind of minimal checks have to be a good idea however evil the system may be (I had a home birth against all advice, but was very careful about what risks I was taking on)

I should say I had an independent MW and would recommend wholeheartedly. I was also worried about PND due to a long and rather dull history of mild/ moderate depression; I asked the hospital MW about what help was availbale and basically had my cards marked as a result and really feel that the great care I got from the independent MW made all the difference in me not getting PND.

In my last pregnancy I had virtually no ante-natal care- although not through choice, particularly!!! Trying to get an appointment with the midwife at our surgery was harder than getting an audience with the bloomin' Pope! I got my 1 scan at 14wks (and had to fight for that!), then I think I managed to get checked twice by midwives. I even had to take my own blood samples to the hospital, as I wanted to have no 3 in the same hospital I had the others in, but we had moved house. They told me this was fine- they would do "shared care", but then it became this HUGE problem, cos they couldn't get my blood analysed (routine blood screen!!) Nightmare!!

Luckily for me I'm a vet, so had access to ultrasound, which was very reassuring. Also did my own urine tests and checked my own BP (you can buy BP monitors relatively cheaply now- try e-bay)Decided it was easier just to monitor myself in the end! But I had had 2 relatively straightforward previous pregnancies, so might not be suitable for everyone.

Message withdrawn

expat - as a midwife you will know already that I wouldn't support your plan as antenatal care is very important.

However there is an option that you have not mentioned. There are midwives in Argyll who are not attached to the hospital and deliver care at home. I know one of them personally and she is lovely.

I will see if I can find info for you.

You could have midwifery visits at home and deliver as planned in Edinburgh (or have homebirth?)

I have a friend who lived in China while pregnant (second pregnancy).

She spoke to a midwife in Belgium and hired a blood pressure machine and bought urine dipsticks. She carried out these checks regularly herself, emailing the results to her midwife back in Belgium.

I understnad what you mean Expat. I want the scans (I found the eight week scan I had last week very reassuring), but all the other tests just stress me out.

Congratulations BTW

Also meant to say that you can also choose GP to give antenatal care and not see midwife at all.

Hi expat - I read about your horrible time earlier on but didn't post - huge congrats on being pregnant again.

I'm 37+4 weeks pg and live in central London - polar opposite in terms of care, you'd think, but in fact most of my care has been done by my GP - blood pressure, urine, palpating, heartbeat and all, at the surgery round the corner. It's been absolutely fine for me - the only thing I've need to be in hospital for really were blood tests (which I bet your GP could do) and scans. If you're not fussed about those, then I see no possible reason why you couldn't do it the way you want to, and avoid the Midwives Of Doom. Really good luck with whatever you decide. xx

I haven't read the whole thread. I wouldn't miss out on antenatal care, when I was pregnant with ds a problem was picked up when I was 33 weeks and I ended up having to have a c-section early because of an infection, if I hadn't had antenatal care things may not have turned out so well.

thanks, all.

yes, mears, any assistance would be much appreciated.

still haven't informed the surgery or that.

probably won't until after having the private scan at 8 weeks.

wouldn't mind going for a homebirth, all being in order for that, except that out here we are very, very far from consultant lead care so on the off chance anything went quickly wrong it wouldn't be a good situation. also, people have had trouble getting prompt ambulance services out here.

i'd do it if i were in Edinburgh in a heartbeat, the hospital not being very far.

i miss Moira, the midwife who cared for me with my two girls and delivered DD1 , and Lorraine, who delivered DD2.

Contact details:

Lochgilphead Maternity Unit
Mid Argyll Hospital
Blarbuie Road
Lochgilphead
Mid Argyll
PA31 8JZ
Tel: 01546 602323
Type: Stand-alone NHS midwife-led unit attached to GP practice.

Is that anywhere near you?

The midwife I know has given talks on the care they deliver. Women do not need to decide where they are giving birth till they are actually in labour. All maternity care is delivered in the home.

They are very experienced midwives.

unfortunately, i'm closer to Dunoon.

i think i'll just talk to my GP about it after the scan and see what he says.

he was very supportive about my wanting to go back to Edinburgh for birth in case of another child, namely because we have no family support here and two other young children. and i feel very supported and comforted by the thought of MIL and SIL as birth partners.

but i well and truly CANNOT go for an early scan around ehre, because i know you face a corridor of pregnant women and, at Inverclyde at least, wait in the waiting room of the ante natal clinic itself.

nope. not going through that again.

not for all the tea in China.

we want to know the baby's gender this time round, so we'd have to go private for 20 week scan, anyhow.

Isn't ayrshire closer? We don't charge for gender scans

Mind you, it is the relative factor you need in Edinburgh.

Worth checking out care options though - the midwives may well cover your area.

possibly, mears.

it's not far to Bute from here, and then the short ferry to Wemyss Bay.

i did find out they don't tell the gender at either Paisley or Inverclyde, but we want to know - just to give it a name and tell relatives.

would not terminate a pregnancy at all except in case of abnormalities incompatible with life or missed m/c, so no need to tests in taht direction in our case.

hopefully there's good breastfeeding support out here, because now as i'm not working outside the home would like to bf longer than the 4 months i got with dd2.

really do need the ILs and SIL's support this time round, as DD1 will only be 5 and DD2 almost 3.

i didn't tell DH, but actually, when i was labouring with DD2, i wanted to take MIL along . she's a strong, comforting prescence. so is SIL.

i think he'd have been relieved.

Congrats Expat!

I can see why you want to avoid the midwives etc, and the giving birth in Edinburgh plan sounds a good and sensible one. But I agree with others that some of the regular antenatal checks are a vital early indicator of any problems. Could you go to your GP and say that you're wanting to try for another baby, but would want all your antenatal checks with the GP, not a midwife, and see what he/she says? That way you get an idea of the lie of the land, and aren't committing to "the system" iyswim?