BBC article urging pregnant people to get the COVID jab

[lillg]

The BBC are again urging pregnant women to get the COVID jab. Can anyone please point me to the research on which this news article is based?

I was concerned when I heard the headlines that 1 in 6 people needing the most intensive care were pregnant. But then I think they said that there were 118 people needing this care between June and September, of which 20 were pregnant? Did I miss-hear?

The message and the statistics don't seem to add up to me so I want to look at the original study and reach my own conclusions.

I have had one vaccine and I am 26 weeks I am trying to get the other on as early as possible has anyone tried to get the second vaccine early?

OP when I decided to get it I researched the statistics coming out of America about how many pregnant women have been vaccinated and delivered safely, that was reassuring enough for me. The risk is obviously low that you or your baby will become extremely ill but it happens and there's no way to know it wouldn't be you. With the risk of the vaccine harming the baby being basically zero in my view (not a scientist but research convinced me) I thought it was a no brainer! The fact all medical experts believe it probably doesn't even cross the placenta, it doesn't on animals but can't check with humans, also really helped convince me!

I found the pregnant then screwed webinar helpful in giving me information when deciding to get the vaccine. Along with talking to friends who work in hospitals - a dr and an intensive care nurse.

I got vaccinated during pregnancy (second vaccine was at 36 weeks). I had no side effects and now have a healthy 4 week old baby that is thriving 😊

Never mind Covid…pregnant PEOPLE????

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@FrancescaContini

Never mind Covid…pregnant PEOPLE????

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I'm sorry, when did women stop being people? I say women in the main post and people in the title. I personally identify as both a woman and a person. Apologies if you don't.

People refers to non binary gender fluid etc. Or men wanting to be women so trans woman. I dislike pregnant people because men can't get pregnant. It's like for people who bleed and chest feeding. Pregnant women!

My daughter makes me laugh I've encouraged feminism in her and an English homework sheet recently kept mentioning man power. She got so annoyed she crossed it out and wrote female power and did the same in her work

@Flowersintheattic2021

People refers to non binary gender fluid etc. Or men wanting to be women so trans woman. I dislike pregnant people because men can't get pregnant. It's like for people who bleed and chest feeding. Pregnant women!

Women can define themselves as a people if they want though surely?

It’s pregnant women. Not people. Yes, of course, women are people, but the replacement of the word ‘women’ with ‘people’ is part of a deliberate attempt to erase the words women use to describe themselves and their bodies from language. Please don’t collude with it.

Please don’t collude with it. ahh right sorry see what PP and you are saying now.

Anyway. Do everything you can to stay away from ECMO, it sounds brutal.

OP clearly referred to ‘pregnant women’ in her original post, the use of ‘pregnant people’ was clearly not used to erase the word women or she wouldn’t have used it later in her opening post. Nothing wrong with referring to women as ‘people’ in this context as of course women are people, to insist women are only referred to as women and can never be referred to as people is surely as damaging as insisting on never using gendered language. Surely it’s not necessary to police the language of others when it is clear from the rest of the post there is no hidden agenda (ie: the OP had no problem with using the word women later in the post so obviously wasn’t trying to erase the term).

@MolkosTeenageAngst

OP clearly referred to ‘pregnant women’ in her original post, the use of ‘pregnant people’ was clearly not used to erase the word women or she wouldn’t have used it later in her opening post. Nothing wrong with referring to women as ‘people’ in this context as of course women are people, to insist women are only referred to as women and can never be referred to as people is surely as damaging as insisting on never using gendered language. Surely it’s not necessary to police the language of others when it is clear from the rest of the post there is no hidden agenda (ie: the OP had no problem with using the word women later in the post so obviously wasn’t trying to erase the term).

Thank you. You put it way better than I ever could have.

I'm sorry, when did women stop being people? I say women in the main post and people in the title.

No one except you suggested they had, however aren't you aware that not all people are women?
Only women can be pregnant, male people cannot, so why use people when you mean women?

For example if you were looking at comparative outcomes after covid infection you wouldn't want to compare the outcomes of 'pregnant people with covid' with 'non-pregnant people with covid' would you?

You'd want to compare pregnant women with covid vs non pregnant women with covid.

Because sex matters in terms of covid outcomes and pretending it doesn't is deliberate ignorance and prioritising politics over science.

It's basic physics. Big pregnant belly puts pressure on the lungs. Add covid in and breathing becomes more difficult. It's harder to ventilate lungs that have a belly preventing it from inflating easily, hence why so many pregnant women need ECMO. Lack of oxygen in mum is bad for mum and bad for baby. Of all the things we do to protect our babies, getting vaccinated during a pandemic makes the most sense. Even if you shield completely, unless you never see any family members throughout pregnancy and never have need for healthcare or leave the house ever, there's still a risk of catching COVID.

We saw the same thing during the swine flu pandemic.

If anyone's worried about the safety of the vaccine, take a look at this: www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/pfizer-and-moderna-vaccines-safe-for-pregnant-people-major-study-confirms

The study looked at more than 35,000 pregnant women after vaccination and found no problems.

And even if there were some risks, they surely are tiny compared to covid itself.

@Sarahdaydreamer1234

I have had one vaccine and I am 26 weeks I am trying to get the other on as early as possible has anyone tried to get the second vaccine early?

OP when I decided to get it I researched the statistics coming out of America about how many pregnant women have been vaccinated and delivered safely, that was reassuring enough for me. The risk is obviously low that you or your baby will become extremely ill but it happens and there's no way to know it wouldn't be you. With the risk of the vaccine harming the baby being basically zero in my view (not a scientist but research convinced me) I thought it was a no brainer! The fact all medical experts believe it probably doesn't even cross the placenta, it doesn't on animals but can't check with humans, also really helped convince me!

I’m 26 weeks too and tried to get my second vaccine early but was told by my doctor’s surgery that I have to wait 8 weeks!

I found this article that quoted 127 pregnant women (or women who had been pregnant in the last 42 days) were admitted to ICU in August 2021:
www.newstatesman.com/health-science/2021/09/why-are-so-many-pregnant-women-in-hospital-with-covid-19

Their source is:
www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports

I did my searches in Google Scholar to get the actual studies. It wasn't even the risk of me being very poorly that convinced me, it was the increase in placental deterioration (necrotic placentas) even in mild cases of Covid, leading to an increase in still births. The original studies were done in Ireland months ago, after an increase in still births was observed, and other countries were researching it at the time I looked into it (about three months ago). I'm now double vaxxed as of last week. I did have to wait the eight weeks in between unfortunately, I'd have preferred my second vaccine quicker. I'm 24 weeks, my 20 week scan was all okay

I had my first Astrazeneca a week before I found out I was pregnant and now I'm petrified of having the second dose as they recommend Pfizer.

This is a reassuring thread on covid vaccines in pregnancy mobile.twitter.com/VikiLovesFACS/status/1447866516892962817

This data is produced by the NPEU, an internationally recognised, multi-disciplinary research unit based at the University of Oxford. They are responsible for UKOSS (UK Obstetric Surveillance System) which collects data from NHS Trusts.

For more information, please go to www.npeu.ox.ac.uk/

@Flowersintheattic2021

People refers to non binary gender fluid etc. Or men wanting to be women so trans woman. I dislike pregnant people because men can't get pregnant. It's like for people who bleed and chest feeding. Pregnant women!

No it doesn't.

Use a dictionary. It's a totally normal word for human beings, and yes, women are indeed people

The reports from this organisation tell you more than you could possibly want to know about what is happening in ICUs

www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/43b1a83d-6828-ec11-9137-00505601089b

They'll try to keep you going for long enough for the baby to have a chance of survival if delivered by CSec - there were press reports early in the pandemic of this when there was little hope of the mother surviving. The babies are usually OK from a covid pov, but extreme prematurely brings its own risks

Only 118 people were on ECMO during the time you reference, but they are highly selective about who they take (based on who they think have a chance of recovering) so many more will have ‘needed’ this support

When people are that ill, then who will survive is a dark art of guesswork. I suspect (but do not know as fact) that pregnant women may be more readily placed on ECMO because they are female and generally younger (two good characteristics for survival) but also because they will try very hard indeed to keep her alive until the baby is viable independently

In my local trust we have had a woman die from covid as she was so ill whilst giving birth.

The change in advise can be worrying but it is based off new information, unless there is a way to stay isolated for your whole pregnancy I would be getting the vaccine.

When people are that ill, then who will survive is a dark art of guesswork. I suspect (but do not know as fact) that pregnant women may be more readily placed on ECMO because they are female and generally younger (two good characteristics for survival) but also because they will try very hard indeed to keep her alive until the baby is viable independently

That's not really the case actually. There are quite specific referral criteria for ECMO based on how severe their respiratory failure is, whether it may be possible to recover from (ECMO isn't a treatment but buys time to allow the lungs to recover) and how easy the patient is to ventilate. Arguably, pregnancy may increase the likelihood of needing ECMO because of the increased oxygen demands of pregnancy and it being physically more difficult to ventilate pregnant patients. But it doesn't give you "bonus points" as such - if anything you'd try and avoid it because ecmo and pregnancy are not a good combination. And having a pregnant woman on respiratory ECMO was incredibly rare before covid.