Would you fly unvaccinated and 20 weeks pregnant?

[Velvetscrunchy]

Exactly what the subject says. I’m considering going abroad for a few weeks to visit family, and it’s only a 2 hour flight. My midwife has said it’s fine but everyone keeps scaring me with talks of Covid and the dangers of travel etc. Would you?

[quote AllSinging]@EarringsandLipstick because people have a choice over their bodies. Absolutely sick of this guilt tripping over people who decide not to have the vaccine, decide to delay having the vaccine or aren’t able to have the vaccine. You do not know the OP full situation and your comment isn’t helpful or relevant to the post. Eurgh it’s so annoying![/quote]
Maybe read the thread properly including my post immediately after my first saying that the OP's posts hadn't uploaded and saying sorry.

So annoying when people just can't read 😉

However I have no truck with people saying no to the vaccine; there are almost zero valid medical reasons for this.

@kam2020

She has already explained she is going to be. However, nobody has to be vaccinated it's personal choice.

And I already noted this in my post immediately after my first one.

I agree with personal choice, to an extent. In this scenario however I have little patience with it; there is no advantage to not being vaccinated, and plenty of personal & societal disadvantage. (Not referring to OP who I know is planning to)

I have to add, the overwhelming reason not to be vaccinated in pregnancy is the lack of data. Had this vaccine been out for a few years the pregnancy uptake would be higher. The problem is we don’t have the choice of waiting for results to come out. I’m assured by the real life data but even then I worry about what I’m exposing my baby to. I’ll be giving birth in Dec, smack bang in the winter season when my chances of Covid are higher than chances of a vaccine side effect, that is what convinced me.

@Pongo101

I would (and have at 20 weeks ) fully vaccinated or at least partly vaccinated I would not without the vaccine

Most countries require passengers to be fully vaccinated or take a test before flying. Therefore a restaurant is more likely to have covid than a plane.

Sorry that doesn’t make logical sense. A lot of flights will allow you to fly if double vaccinated and without a PCR test - it’s not required. We already know double vaccinated people transmit asymptomatically and are doing so in the community (this is why its still on the go) so your chances of being around covid are significantly increased on a plane. It’s not the same as a restaurant.

OP, I know you are getting the vaccine.

Worrying about what you are exposing your baby to is understandable but not based on any evidence. See www.rcog.org.uk/en/guidelines-research-services/coronavirus-covid-19-pregnancy-and-womens-health/covid-19-vaccines-and-pregnancy/covid-19-vaccines-pregnancy-and-breastfeeding/

The vaccine is not a live vaccine. Therefore there is nothing to 'pass on' to the baby. While the Covid vaccine is new, the research around mRNA vaccines is well underway, and other non-live vaccines (eg flu vaccine) have been used by pregnant women very successfully.

I get the concern. However, I can't understand not alleviating the concern by referring to existing, verifiable data.

@EarringsandLipstick

OP, I know you are getting the vaccine.

Worrying about what you are exposing your baby to is understandable but not based on any evidence. See www.rcog.org.uk/en/guidelines-research-services/coronavirus-covid-19-pregnancy-and-womens-health/covid-19-vaccines-and-pregnancy/covid-19-vaccines-pregnancy-and-breastfeeding/

The vaccine is not a live vaccine. Therefore there is nothing to 'pass on' to the baby. While the Covid vaccine is new, the research around mRNA vaccines is well underway, and other non-live vaccines (eg flu vaccine) have been used by pregnant women very successfully.

I get the concern. However, I can't understand not alleviating the concern by referring to existing, verifiable data.

I am a scientist. I fully understand the vaccine and the info so far is from real life data, and not RCTs. I know Pfizer is running a maternal study at the moment but the data is too late for me to use.

The RCOG in the link above say:
The large clinical trials which showed that COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective did not include pregnant women. As the COVID-19 vaccines were not tested in pregnant women, we cannot say for sure that they work as well in pregnant women as they do in other adults. However, there is no reason to think that the vaccines will not protect pregnant women effectively against COVID-19. Similarly, there is no reason to think that the vaccine will have worse side-effects in pregnant women.

It is the uncertainty and the lack of solid verifiable data that makes pregnant women jittery.

I am not arguing about why people shouldn’t have the vaccine, I’m saying I understand why they are hesitant to do so. It will be a much easier decision to make with some trial data behind it.

No

@Velvetscrunchy

I really wasn’t expecting everyone to say no. I think it’s because my midwife said it’s fine for me to travel, and she knew I wasn’t vaccinated. I had covid a few months before I became pregnant so I’ve got antibodies. Just don’t know if they’re still there and if they pass on to the baby if you have it pre-pregnancy. I’ll discuss that with my doctor.

Personally I would (flew from NZ to UK 10 years ago at 26 weeks) but I've decided not to fly anywhere until the 'risk' of getting stuck abroad isn't so high! I guess that might not be such an issue of you're planning to visit family thirty. I also think the price of the tests are extortionate so don't want to do it on principal. Brighton it is for us this summer :)

"Thirty?" I meant "though"!

It is the uncertainty and the lack of solid verifiable data that makes pregnant women jittery.

As a scientist, you surely understand my wider point, which is that the mechanisms for the Covid vaccine have been long-researched & tested in other scenarios, that allow how much risk Covid vaccines pose to be extrapolated.

As a scientist, you understand that there's no way to trial treatments or vaccines on pregnant women, so other methodology as described above, has to be used (as is always the case).

As a scientist you understand the mechanism of the mRNA vaccines means there isn't something there that can cause a risk to the baby, as it is based on a protein spike being developed which stimulates an immune response. There is no lasting effect in the body.

@Velvetscrunchy

I am not arguing about why people shouldn’t have the vaccine, I’m saying I understand why they are hesitant to do so. It will be a much easier decision to make with some trial data behind it.

I understand why people may have hesitancy too - humans are not always rational, of course. I'm worried about things that don't make sense.

I just can't understand why people (not you!) can't then research the readily available data & see that the risks of Covid, for them & society more widely, absolutely outstrip the risks of the vaccine.

@EarringsandLipstick

It is the uncertainty and the lack of solid verifiable data that makes pregnant women jittery.

As a scientist, you surely understand my wider point, which is that the mechanisms for the Covid vaccine have been long-researched & tested in other scenarios, that allow how much risk Covid vaccines pose to be extrapolated.

As a scientist, you understand that there's no way to trial treatments or vaccines on pregnant women, so other methodology as described above, has to be used (as is always the case).

As a scientist you understand the mechanism of the mRNA vaccines means there isn't something there that can cause a risk to the baby, as it is based on a protein spike being developed which stimulates an immune response. There is no lasting effect in the body.

The vaccine is being trialed in pregnant women. As I mentioned there is the Pfizer maternal study running so when needs require, trials are conducted in pregnant women. clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04754594?term=Bnt162b&draw=3&rank=11

I was going to reply to say I would have volunteered for that trial but actually the thought of having the placebo would REALLY worry me right now, that's got ethical issues of its own hasn't it? Don't get me wrong I know the basic outline of a clinical trial but I'd be gutted if I found out now I was unvaccinated after all...

@8dpwoah

I was going to reply to say I would have volunteered for that trial but actually the thought of having the placebo would REALLY worry me right now, that's got ethical issues of its own hasn't it? Don't get me wrong I know the basic outline of a clinical trial but I'd be gutted if I found out now I was unvaccinated after all...

Yes, I’d want the certainty of knowing I’m protected too! They can’t unblind the placebo group as they need the outcomes of the infants - I guess that’s why they have such a relatively small sample size.

The vaccine is being trialed in pregnant women

Yes of course!

But that's because pregnant women are getting it anyway & this trial will evaluate the effects (vaccinated versus non vaccinated, in this population). It specifically says those who are given the placebo will get the vaccine later, regardless.

It's not being used to decide if pregnant women should get the vaccine. They already are based on existing science around vaccines in pregnancy that show it's safe - my original point.

🤦🏻‍♀️

@EarringsandLipstick

The vaccine is being trialed in pregnant women

Yes of course!

But that's because pregnant women are getting it anyway & this trial will evaluate the effects (vaccinated versus non vaccinated, in this population). It specifically says those who are given the placebo will get the vaccine later, regardless.

It's not being used to decide if pregnant women should get the vaccine. They already are based on existing science around vaccines in pregnancy that show it's safe - my original point.

🤦🏻‍♀️

The study is absolutely being used to decide if pregnant women should have the vaccine. It’s aim is to demonstrate the safety, tolerability, and immunogenicity of the vaccine. Which is needed to see the risks to pregnant women of having the vaccine, which in turn is needed to see if pregnant women should have the vaccine. Pfizer’s EUA labelling info states: Available data on Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine administered to pregnant women are insufficient to inform vaccine-associated risks in pregnancy.

That is what the trial is there to gather info on.

I’m done arguing this point. I know what I’m talking about as this is what I work on day and night, and the 🤦🏻‍♀️ emoji is particularly patronising.

labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLabeling.aspx?id=14471

I am currently in Greece. Pregnant and unvaccinated however I do have Covid antibodies. Lots of pregnant people out here!

Airport was quiet, plane not completely full and tbh we have more cases in the Uk!

Hell no!