Would it be wrong to demand a c section?

[chelsiekxoxo]

38 weeks pregnant and found out I had a large ovarian cyst (12cm) yesterday at a growth scan. Had a specialist scan today who has said that as its large etc it will need to be surgically removed shortly after birth. I have been getting a lot of pain where said cyst is for a while now but I put it down to baby kicking etc (so did midwife). He has told me I will likely need my tube removed and if I do end up with an EMCS (which he said is now more likely) they will be removed there and then and has updated my notes to say as such. I was going to get induced on the 18th (my due date) but he's cancelled this as he doesn't want to risk baby getting stressed (he's measuring small) and to wait for spontaneous labour and aim for a vaginal.

Would I be unreasonable to ask for a planned c section to save the faffing about after delivery. So recovering from a vaginal and then having surgery to remove the cyst etc. I am quite worried as he said there is a chance it could burst and obviously EMCS would have to happen then. I am so 40 minutes away from hospital and have very quick deliveries so if complications do arise chances are ill be birthing at home.

I would talk to them and ask them to discuss it seriously. It might make sense.

If it helps, I had a tube removed (not during birth, but due to ectopic pregnancy) and it was done by keyhole, so recovery was very quick. I felt awful for about 48 hours, but was pretty ok after that. Took it easy for 2 weeks and was pretty much fully recovered by 6 weeks.

I find demanding things never goes down well, but you should certainly moot the idea with the medical people looking after you and have a reasoned discussion with them.

Or you could go private and get what you demand.

Another thing I've had is extreme pelvic pain. I can't even open my legs i assumed this was due to baby but is a symptom of the cyst. I told doctor this today and he dismissed it and put on my notes im having no symptoms etc

No need to demand it. Simply state it is what you would strongly prefer.

I sent my consultant an email stating all of my reasons for requesting an elcs and she's ringing me on Tuesday to discuss. Hopefully she can book it in!

You can absolutely ask for one for any reason you like! I think the fact you’re going to have two recoveries (especially with a baby) is enough of a reason if you want it. I’m having one for zero medical reason at all and know of plenty other people doing the same! If they give you any hassle have a look at birth rights website and the NICE guidelines. I’d read the risks on the nhs website before your appointment next week so you aren’t taken aback by any of the risks they say. They can be quite extreme with them and don’t really weigh up the two options at all (in my experience) 🤦🏼‍♀️ But you have the risks of having to go through surgery anyway so you’re kind of taking on the risks of both if you were to do it separately! If it’s what you’d prefer don’t let them talk you out of it, just be firm and say yes to all of the risks

@MrsFin

I find demanding things never goes down well, but you should certainly moot the idea with the medical people looking after you and have a reasoned discussion with them.

Or you could go private and get what you demand.

Unless one lives in London, how does one get a private c-section? Genuinely curious as I'd rather pay for one than try vaginal. However, I live 2 hours drive away from London in the West Mids area.

You don’t have to demand anything, it’s your right to choose and if they refuse, they will move you to another obstetrician who is willing.
It used to be around £5k for a private c section (I think).

I second @Sarah13xx

I'm 28 weeks pregnant and in the process of requesting one. I requested one from day one and I will be getting heavy-handed if it's a 'no' (I think I find out on Friday) because I can't do this any other way. It varies from NHS Trust to NHS Trust what you have to do to get approved. I've had to have a mental health assessment from a clinical psychologist (which was an experience as I'm a psychologist too) - it was intense but she was lovely and her letter recommends a c-section.

My advice is be well versed in the risks of c-sections (but bear in mind they lump the risks of vaginal-turned-EMCS with ELCS). Have some solid reasons why you want a c-section vs vaginal (I quoted the researched and statistically supported risks of vaginal). You could also include life experiences, etc. In my Trust, it had to be considered Tokophobia (fear of pregnancy and/or childbirth). I threw in vaginismus for good measure (this is accurate for me) and severe anxiety about unknown variables that accompany vaginal birth. Just have all your reasoning ready to go and I'm sure you'll be fine.

Without telling me my consultant booked me in for an induction today and when they rang to tell me a time they told me there is 'query cesarean section' by my name. I assume this means if I refuse this induction on Tuesday when I am exactly 39 weeks she will book me in for c section.

@chelsiekxoxo hope you get it booked in then if they’ve at least taken it seriously enough to write it in your notes. The first couple of times I mentioned it I could see on the app they didn’t note it down.

@Labyrinth86 hope you get yours sorted, it’s such a weight off your mind knowing you don’t need to fight them on it anymore. It’s then just the worry of making it to the date but hopefully you’ll get closer to 39 weeks than me!

Mine is on Monday 😬😬

@Sarah13xx I am thinking of you today :) All the best with it and enjoy becoming a mumma!

Good luck for today Sarah! Hope everything goes/has gone well with surgery 🙏 😘

@Labyrinth86 can I ask your reasons for not wanting a natural birth?
I understand the scared bit, aren't we all. I just did not know the ease of which one could get a c section.

[quote Imnewhere1991]@Labyrinth86 can I ask your reasons for not wanting a natural birth?
I understand the scared bit, aren't we all. I just did not know the ease of which one could get a c section.[/quote]
I'm not 'scared'. I think I'd say that about having a c-section. I'm terrified of doing irreparable damage to my body. Vaginal births are unpredictable. They can be easy, they can be extremely difficult and life-threatening to both mother and baby. 1/3 first time deliveries result in instruments or EMCS. The use of instruments results in a greater likelihood of 3rd or 4th degree tearing. Research has shown that in the long-term, women who give birth vaginally are more likely to suffer from incontinence (front and/or back) - aside from this making life unpleasant, I would probably have to change careers if I couldn't control my bowels due to being in meetings most of the day. My biggest 'fear' is pelvic organ prolapse - where your organs or vagina quite literally fall down your vagina and sometimes even bulge out the entrance. It's considered 'one of those things' that happens. Both incontinence and prolapse can happen to any woman and pregnancy can increase the risk so women who have c-sections aren't guaranteed to avoid them by any means. However, pushing a baby through the pelvic floor does additional damage and increases the risk. A vaginal birth could last a few hours or it could last days (quite literally). I work with children with SEND and some of them have mental and physical disabilities because of injuries or lack of oxygen during childbirth. In fact, until I did my job, I didn't realise that a lot of cases of cerebral palsy are caused by vaginal deliveries gone wrong. In contrast, the risks to babies born by c-section are breathing difficulties (well, they can be rushed straight to NICU) and allergies. C-sections are riskier to mothers in terms of the severity of the risk. The chance of dying is much higher (possibly double) but still a tiny number! Additionally, some of those deaths would have started out as vaginal births and ended up as EMCS. Aside from all those reasons, I have vaginismus - I am convinced I probably couldn't give birth even if I did want to, which I really don't.

Also, ease?! It's not at all easy to get a c-section. Some women have to fight really hard for it. I've had 3 phone calls and a 2 hour assessment... on top of working full time and attending all my typical appointments. I think that's a very dismissive way to put it tbh.

Labyrinth I can second the incontinence problems, this is my 4th baby (traumatic first birth, rushed for EMCS but decided to give me an episiotomy and use forceps) and after my first I had a noticeable difference. After my third I can't even walk without peeing a bit.

ELCS is definitely not because women are too posh to push like some people seem to think! The recovery is obviously hard etc but so is a traumatic vaginal birth which damages your bladder and bowel (also my case) and is very painful during and to recover from after (with stitches)

I have had two textbook births too and whilst they did damage my pelvic floor etc I didn't tear and each lasted a very short amount of time. That being said doesn't mean my next wouldn't be problematic. Every birth is different and as the women who will have to birth our children i feel it should also be our right to make an informed decision and have it honoured.

@Labyrinth86 I do know all this. I had a vaginal birth and your post has triggered me due to my experience. If I had known I did not have to have one, I wouldn't have. However, everyone would have a c - section if we all read those statistics before. Then what would happen to the NHS? I'm not being rude, but I don't think you've said anything personal, aside from statistics that any of us could find, that deems you different to any other mum.
In fact more women like you having c - sections means mums like me, with severe existing mental health issues, past abuse etc, are told ' you'll be fine' (in regards to a vaginal birth) because we aren't in a strong enough place to fight. WE are the ones who suffer.
I would have rather had three phonecalls and a two hour assessment than a year of therapy, various professionals in and out of my.house, discussing me, offering support to my new and existing mental health issues declining to the point I was in crisis. If I had actually been spoken to, a lot of this could be avoided.
If I ever had a second (I doubt it) I will be different that time. You are lucky to be 'one step ahead' than us poor mums thrown to the unknown and horrors of birth

@Imnewhere1991 so what you're saying is that OP is taking a c-section away from women who might need it more? That's preposterous. You had access to the same info and statistics. You had the same rights and opportunity to request a c-section.
How is it OPs fault that you didn't do your research and advocate for yourself? Should she be subjected to a traumatic birth to tickle your sense of justice?

@Imnewhere1991 You asked me for my reasons and I gave them to you. I'm sorry to hear of your experience. I'm going to take the rest of your comments with a pinch of salt because a Clinical Psychologist deemed me to have sufficiently valid reasons. Also, me having a c-section doesn't prevent anyone else doing the same. Thats the exact opposite of what I'm trying to achieve - I want to make sure women know they do have a choice and the hoops they may need to jump through. This is my first baby. I may not even have another and if I do, it will be my last one. I'm sure as sugar costing the NHS far less than someone who has 5 or 6 vaginal births (I'm not knocking women who do this, it is their right, but I'm using it to point out what a flimsy argument this is). Also, the costs of repairing the damage after a vb and for physio or required therapy should be factored into any argument about money. Furthermore, like I said further up - I would pay for it myself if we had the option. Outside of London this does not appear to be possible. Finally, I have never smoked, I have a healthy BMI, I rarely drink (maybe twice a year) - I barely use the NHS and I pay a decent tax rate. I bet women who totally abuse their bodies get far less grief than those of us requesting sections.

No, I don't agree that everyone would have a c-section. As you said yourself, this information is out there already. It should be up to the woman to make an informed decision, which is now what is in the NICE guidelines and the only reason I even got pregnant in the first place! Plenty of women on here and elsewhere post about how they would avoid an ELCS at all costs and that's fair enough. No one should be forced to give birth in a way that will traumatise them. Imcidentally, don't you think your argument is a bit paradoxical?! You're saying you had traumatic experiences but I (and other women like me) shouldn't be given the chance to avoid them though I know the risks of vb going into it and it causes me to feel terrified? Also, I didn't post my life history on here but yes, past experiences have clearly shaped all of us as people and I have experienced adverse things at the hands of others myself. I also have a significant need to feel in control. I do not feel at all guilty for requesting a c-section and no one will make me feel that way.

@chelsiekxoxo It sounds like you have really strong reasons to request a c-section. I'm so sorry to hear of your experiences. I wish you all the luck in the world that you get the birth you want with this DC :)

[quote Labyrinth86]@chelsiekxoxo It sounds like you have really strong reasons to request a c-section. I'm so sorry to hear of your experiences. I wish you all the luck in the world that you get the birth you want with this DC :)[/quote]
My consultant is ringing me today to discuss mode of delivery and onwards plan.

My hospital has messed up big time, two consultants have now said that I can't be induced whatsoever yet a few days ago I was called in for induction! And only because I pushed them to look at my notes (after ringing 5 times) did they tell me not to come in!

I hope today she can book me in for a section, i feel a 12cm ovarian cyst that's presenting a number of symptoms and causing me a lot of pain is a medical reason to request!

Thanks 😊 xx

[quote Urghhhhh]@Imnewhere1991 so what you're saying is that OP is taking a c-section away from women who might need it more? That's preposterous. You had access to the same info and statistics. You had the same rights and opportunity to request a c-section.
How is it OPs fault that you didn't do your research and advocate for yourself? Should she be subjected to a traumatic birth to tickle your sense of justice?[/quote]
Honestly, this is how it reads isn't it?

Oddly, this seems to be a prevalent problem in society. The complications that can arise during and after a vaginal birth are kept on the downlow by medics and other women. Going by people's experiences posted on here, after the damage is done, it's 'oh yeah, that's normal', 'what did you expect to happen?', etc. I think I'm lucky that my family never held back and I know my aunt had 4th degree tearing,my mum had forceps and episiotomies, etc. It traumatised me from an early age and put me off having kids until at the age of 34 (now 35) until I found that bit about requesting c-sections on the NHS website. If it wasn't for that hope, I would have remained childfree despite wanting to be a mother.

@chelsiekxoxo I'm sure you'll get it. All the best with the call. Be firm and say yes to everything they tell you about risks, like Sarah13xx suggested 😊

Ugh, I have recurring cysts on my right ovary. Such a pain aren't they?! It would be great if they can whip that out when they deliver your little one. I chickened out of keyhole surgery before but it was the thought of general anaesthetic that did it. If they wanted to do it under a spinal with a c-section, I'd say yes! 😆

[quote Labyrinth86]@chelsiekxoxo I'm sure you'll get it. All the best with the call. Be firm and say yes to everything they tell you about risks, like Sarah13xx suggested 😊

Ugh, I have recurring cysts on my right ovary. Such a pain aren't they?! It would be great if they can whip that out when they deliver your little one. I chickened out of keyhole surgery before but it was the thought of general anaesthetic that did it. If they wanted to do it under a spinal with a c-section, I'd say yes! 😆[/quote]
Yes its horrible! It was missed at many of my scans which I can only assume means irs grown quite rapidly? The doctor writ i was having no symptoms when id told him i was etc and I have rang triage and my CMW a number of times with bad pains which was always dismissed...

I am definitely going to be firm and tell them I'm making an informed decision and I understand the risks associated and I am happy to take them.

I am 39 weeks today so surley id need to be booked in for the end of the week?