problem detected at 20 week scan, please help

[milkybarkid]

I am just over 23 weeks pregnant, I think, lots of diff dates been given, and have just ahd a late 20 week scan. Both kidneys are full of fluid and it has been sugested it might be downs syndrome, have been offered amnio and been told to let them know next week if I want ana mnio ornot. I ddidnt think you could tell from 20 week scan about likelihood of downs, are they just making a fuss or there is really a strong possibility. Anyone else come across this?

[PreggieMum]

I've recently had my 20 week scan too (am also now 23 weeks pregnant) and was told that both of the baby's kidneys are enlarged which is due to fluid flowing back into the kidneys. No mention of likelihood of downs though.

I have just been told not to worry, but need to go back for a repeat scan at 34 weeks and if the kidneys are still enlarged an ultrasound will have to be performed on the baby once she is born to establish if there is a problem.

[milkybarkid]

Thanks preggiemum, were you told baby has to have antibiotics for five years and hospital birth and you have to see consultant each visit

[fio2]

I didnt realise fluid in the kidney could be a sign of downs tbh

have they give you no other information?

[misdee]

oh milkybarkid, this must be hard for you. it could be a 'marker' for downs, but i'm not sure. do you want an amino? how do you feel about it? At the end of the day, its your body and your baby, dont feel pressurised into aything.

[PreggieMum]

I have to see consultant for antenatal visits and was told that baby may require antibiotics after the birth because of recurrent urine infections (no mention of 5 years though!!!!).

What was said to you regarding the likelihood of downs? Maybe they haven't told me everything?

[PreggieMum]

Okay, have just googled and have found this:

"Renal pelvic dilatation (RPD)
Also known as mild hydronephrosis or excess fluid in the centre of the kidneys, renal pelvic dilatation (RPD) is seen on scan as black spots in one or both kidneys. The fluid is urine that's produced by the baby's kidneys and collects in the middle before going down tubes called ureters to the bladder. The build-up of fluid is usually due to a slight obstruction in the flow of the urine and, as with choroid plexus cysts (CPCs), the tubes get bigger as the baby grows and the urine flows more easily.

Some babies with Down's syndrome have RPD but it's a very poor marker. Many normal babies have RPD, too. If no other markers or abnormalities are seen, your baby will be scanned again at 34 weeks by which time the kidneys may well look normal. If there is still increased fluid, your baby will have another scan after birth. He will most probably be given antibiotics for his first few months as he will be prone to urine infections. Finding out about the RPD in pregnancy is a good thing because it allows your baby to get prompt treatment for the condition at birth."

[bakedpotato]

hi there MBK (and PM)

i feel for you both. i went for a 20-wk scan about a month and a half ago. i was told baby had 2 so-called 'soft markers' for DS. one was what i think you've been told about -- renal dilatation. we went through the horror of having to think about amnio etc, and opted for it, and the baby was given the allclear.
as has been already said, there's much disagreement about whether renal dilation is a reliable indicator of DS. it's incredibly common -- 1 in every 100 babies has it and the vast vast VAST majority have no chromosomal abnormality.
we went into the hosp again this week to speak to a nurse about renal dilation and what it would mean. she said the baby would be on antibiotics for the first 14 wks after delivery. depending on what subsequent scans showed up, the course might finish there. in 75pc of cases, the antibiotics clears up the problem, that's it, problem resolved. (i think there are lots of MN mums who can vouch for this -- when i posted originally in great anxiety after the scan, many many reassuring voices came through to say their baby had no subsequent kidney problems.)
i'll be thinking of you. do hassle the hosp for more information. is there a genetic counsellor who could give you more info, if you want it? MBK, it doesn't sound as if they've given you much to go on, and i found that nothing scared me as much as not having enough information.
let us know what you decide. there will be lots of support if youwant it here.

[SoupDragon]

DS2 had renal dilatation picked up on a 37 week scan. There was no mention of DS and he simply had to have AntiBs after the birth for roughly 4-6 weeks when a scan gave him the all clear.

[aloha]

BTW there is an alternative to long-term antibiotics for vesicoureteral reflux (leakage of urine back from the bladder to the kidneys) which involves a 15min procedure injecting an inert gel into the wall of the bladder to create a 'lip' which stops the urine escape. I've just been looking at it as part of my work (I'm a journalist). Sorry you've had all this anxiety. Poor you.

[MummyToSteven]

Hi MBK. sorry you have had such a stressful time at your 20 week scan. i agree with the other posters that it doesn't sound like you have had enough info from the hospital - could you arrange to see/phone consultant or midwife to get more info?

[yurtgirl]

Message withdrawn

[gm84]

hi when i was pregnant with my first child nothing like rpd showed up on the scan but when she was 6 months old she had a bad urine infection and after she had tests done i was told she had reflux im now pregnant with my second child and had my scan today im 19 weeks and was told that rpd showed up on scan got to go back for another scan at 34 weeks but nothing about downs was mentioned today should i ask at my next antinatal

[Diege]

I've had this with all 3 dds at the 20 week scan (they say it's just coincidence )and had no problems after birth. DD1 on antibiotics after birth for 5 months or so, dds 2&3 we waited to 5 month scan and they had 'resolved'. The rate of this happening is 1 in 3 pregnancies in my hosptial, so very common. I'm pregnant again and a friend who's a sonographer says that in terms of the link to DS, they don't even note it unless there's a another 'soft' marker which I think corresponds roughly to what PREGGIEMUM's link says.
I'm fully expecting it again at my 20 weeks scan, and may even suspect something is 'wrong' if we don;t see it this time!
Please don;t worry though - many NHS Trusts no longer report it in isolation (as with chorionic plexus cysts) and I'm surprised that you have been offered an amnio if this is the only marker

[sallysparkle]

Both my children have RPD although it was never picked up on a scan and neither have Downs. DD was on antibiotics for about 2 1/2 years. DS was diagnosed at 6 weeks because of his sisters history. He takes antibiotics every night and although I'd rather he didn't, it doesn't affect his life in any way. Although its easy for me to say, try not to worry.

[pofaced]

Of course double check likelihood of Downs etc BUT DD3 had sever hydronephrosis diagnosed on scan at 34 weeks (hospital said they did late scans routinely but having read above maybe they saw something at 20 weeks and rescanned without tellling us the reason?)

Anyway, lovely healthy baby born with quite severely blocked ureter which meant one kidney didn't drain properly which was seen with renal ultrasound at 4 weeks and then followed up with a few other tests. She had surgery in Great ormond Street at 6 months: unpleasant for us all but no big deal.

She was on antibiotics for 3 years and gets checked every so often and her dodgy kidney performs at 55% and "good' kidney performs very well. She is now the healthiest, strongest 8 year old in town and only the photos of her in her GOSH gown remind us there was ever a problem.... Varrious friends of my mother have developed kidney problems later in life (60+) because of undiagnised issues like this but our DD should be fine

It's only natural to worry and fret when told everything not 100% after a scan but having come out the other side of what I have described, it's nothing to worry about. The consultant who saw me blanch when told about the problem just waved her hand and said "it's only plumbing" and it seems she was right!

[notcitrus]

My scan was just over 23 weeks. As I'd missed any tests for Downs etc, they told me that if my baby had Downs, there was about a 50% chance of them being able to tell.

In particular, they could tell if some of the possible complications of Downs were present, such as heart valve problems, although these aren't necessary related to Downs.

No such signs were present, which means even if Squirmy does have Downs, he's likely to avoid many of the medical problems that sometimes go with it.

[1sttimer80]

Hi All,

I just came across this post. I'm 25 weeks pregnant now, but at my 20 week scan they also noticed the fluid in the kidneys, but told me to to worry. I have another scan booked in for 28 weeks.

The only thing we can do is wait and see, and try not to worry!

[gwyneth5679]

hi, can u help as im very scared and depressed. i have just had a scan at 30 weeks, they said that the baby has enlarged kidneys and there are lots of fluid around him, plus he is bit bigger classed as 34 weeks where im 30 weeks.

[TheFalconsmistress]

My ds had this it showed up on his 20 week scan. I was told its fairly common. He had a couple of extra scans but it looked as if it had cleared up by 34 Weeks. He got us scan at birth and was monitored to make sure he could wee. No antibiotics needed. Hth

[4athomeand1cooking]

My son had this. When he was born he went straight onto antibiotics as a precaution. I continued with them for 6 months before deciding to take him off of them. The hospital were fine with this and just told me to keep an eye out for infection. He went back every 3 months for a scan and at his year scan, he was back to normal.

At no time was Downs mentioned to me during my pregnancy and I was led to believe it is fairly common.

[NandH]

I had a late 20 scan with my dd who is now 2, her left kidney was dilated,full of fluid and they said she has a duplex kidney, since birth she's had numerous scans and tests, I'd get it checked out if I were you :)

[Roshbegosh]

It won't be the kidneys that suggest Down's. it is common to have dilated kidneys, in your scan, for the DOwn's to be worried about so late must mean they saw something else. Incidentally soft markers are out of date now. And ask for harmony rather than an amnio, no risk to baby.

[Bodicea]

Fluid in kidneys is a soft marker but normally only mention chromosome abnormalities if there are two soft markers. Depends on hospital protocol i suppose but i wouldn't be too worried. One alone is not an indication especially renal pelvic dilatation. More common in a certain sex and there are certain conditions associated with that sex only (Especialy bilateral kidneys) so might be worth finding out sex. I won't say which incase you don't want to know.
If the test will put your mind at rest now that they have
Worried you it might be worth considering though.

[Roshbegosh]

Bodica, no it isn't.

[Bodicea]

I am sorry rosh, no what isn't?