In-laws sending mixed messages, again...

[MariaFidelis]

Hi all,

This is my first post on this forum, so would really appreciate your help!

DH and I have barely been on speaking terms with his family since last winter (2020), due to a number of long-term issues and episodes of unpleasantness (religious and social intolerance, jealousy etc) that culminated in virtually all of them declaring they would not be attending our wedding last July (his grandmother, parents and brother eventually did, after a last minute change of decision, but were very unpleasant to me and my family on the day, and left before the reception started).

We are now very blessed to be welcoming our first child in April, and after being encouraged by DH's grandmother (who has been wonderfully supportive over the last 18 months), for the sake of our child we decided to gradually attempt reconciliation with DH's parents and brother before Christmas. We received lovely cards over the period from both, however when we replied to his brother by email, received no response. I also texted the email to him and enquired after them, which was noted as 'read' but until now has remained ignored. Confused, we sent a nice email to DH's parents earlier this week, after another series of pleasant exchanges, remarking on our surprise at the lack of response from DH's brother, and we have since received no reply from them as well. As such, this has left us completely bewildered, especially after what we thought was such a pleasant exchange of messages (enquiring after our and baby's health etc) and a very generous gift towards the nursery.

Apologies for the long post, but we are both feeling a bit lost (and sad), wondering whether our effort to seek reconciliation with DH's family (for the second time!) has once again been rebuffed?

It does sound like it, but there’s not enough background on what actually happened to understand their actions.

What did you say in the email?

It may be better to post this in the relationships forum.

@MsHedgehog

It does sound like it, but there’s not enough background on what actually happened to understand their actions.

What did you say in the email?

It may be better to post this in the relationships forum.

Thank you, I'm new to Mumsnet so wasn't sure where to post it but will re-post to the Relationships Forum. Our email to DH's brother thanked him and his girlfriend for their Christmas card, said that we were well and asked if they were too, and spoke mainly about our baby's health and new home (he had commented and showed interest in both). We also said we hoped to introduce our baby to them when he/she arrives. A pleasant response, which we are very surprised did not receive a reply back. Our email to DH's parents basically expressed this surprise and asked if everything was alright. We have now received no response from them, which makes me wonder if they were only trying to show superficial/passing interest, as it seems the moment we mention the idea of them meeting our baby, all goes quiet!

Why don't you pick up the phone and have a chat?

I don't always reply to emails .... I had a lovely one at Christmas from a close friend, to my shame I haven't replied ... not because I don't care about her but just general apathy with Lockdown and life in general.

How long ago did you email him? Sometimes it can be incredibly difficult to put aside the time to sit down and reply to a lengthy personal email. Even a lengthy text conversation sometimes takes me a day or two, if I was replying to a detailed email it would easily take me a few days if I'm busy with work and lockdown life.
Since he sent you a card over Christmas I would be hesitant to say he isn't interested in reconciliation at all and more likely is just busy.

If I'm being honest, I would be a bit annoyed if I was busy and hadn't gotten around to replying to a non urgent email and the person screenshotted it and then also text it to me.

I would go with the assumption that they will have little to nothing to do with baba.
Be plesant and kind when you see them by all means. In a situation where you are more invested in a relationship and the other side is disinterested for whatever reason I fear you will be opening yourself up to get hurt.
The baby has a mum and dad who will love it and that is the most important thing. A more extended family is good but not a necessity. It also sounds like your close to your family so there will be extended family on that side.
Growing up I was very close to 1 set of cousins ( my mums sisters kids) but never really knew my dad family only seeing them every 3-4years. I dont feel like I particularly missed out.

@Ragwort

Why don't you pick up the phone and have a chat?

I don't always reply to emails .... I had a lovely one at Christmas from a close friend, to my shame I haven't replied ... not because I don't care about her but just general apathy with Lockdown and life in general.

Thanks for your advice. The last time we saw them (at our wedding in July) they barely spoke to me , glared and made rude comments at my family, scoffed at our low-key reception and left before we had even arrived. This was then followed by an email sent the following day to my parents, DH and myself (whist we were on our honeymoon) falsely accusing me of 'belittling' DH's brother's girlfriend (I didn't even speak to her for the entire day, but then again they have always preferred her to me) and saying that i need to be 'restrained' (like a dog?).

So as you can imagine, our gradual attempt to reconcile now is on delicate grounds, and has not yet reached the comfortable stage to be able to' 'pick up the phone and chat' :(

It may be that our email has gone unnoticed, but why after several days of pleasant exchanges, would they suddenly go quiet as soon as the idea of meeting their grandchild/niece or nephew be mentioned?

Why are you so worried about persuing a relationship?
I dont understand how you think a child potentially witnessing this behaviour towards it mother is in the best interest of the child.
I would step back and leave it to DH.

It’s hard to know why they have stopped communicating after you’ve reached out without knowing the full background. Can you elaborate on why your relationship deteriorated?

You’re due in 3 months...i would focus on your health and getting ready for the baby, rather than worrying about them. I know it’s tough but right now, your mental health is more important.

@Aimee1987 The desire to reconcile with DH's family came from good intentions, and a desire to heal a rift that could affect our child's wellbeing later on. Having come from a 'broken home' myself (relatives disowning each other etc), and suffered the pain of it in my own childhood, DH and I did not wish to inflict the same on our children, if possible.

@MsHedgehog The relationship with DH's family deteriorated for many reasons. Long-story short, we first met in March 2018 and since then his parents (especially mother) made their dislike of me fairly evident. His older (only) brother was initially more supportive, until we announced our engagement in 2019, after which he demanded we change the date of our wedding (his own girlfriend of eight years was extremely jealous and subsequently pressurised him into proposing two weeks later). Sadly this relationship became plighted by jealousy and rivalry, and along with the opposition of his parents resulted in us moving way and cutting all contact with them. It has mainly been through the gentle encouragement of his lovely grandmother that we have come to consider reconciling, which seemed to be going nicely, until the last couple of days.

I think that maybe you're going to quick for them.
You relationship has been fraught and distant. Now you're expecting daily communications.
And I'd feel a little miffed if someone screenshotted an email and texted it me in a passive aggressive attempt to jolt me to reply.
I appreciate you've had difficulty with them in the past, and wouldn't blame you if you decided not to continue with the reconciliation attempt. Why would you want these rude people in your lives?

But, without knowing their side of the story, I think it could simply be that they're not ready for such frequent contact.

I think the choice is do you “inflict a broken home” on your dc or inflict a bunch of arseholes on them

@Hoppinggreen That is my worry too, but DH wanted to follow his grandmother's encouragement and I wanted to support him in this decision, but admittedly have been somewhat uneased by the sudden change.

You need to put some serious thought into why you think inviting them into yours and your baby’s life would be a positive.

Why do you want to have a relationship with people who were so abominable at your wedding?!

What are the religious issues?

Your child won’t miss what they never had and from what you’ve said I think you’re very wrong to open yourselves up to more of their disgraceful behaviour.

These people won’t compensate for the sadness of family issues in your own upbringing and will potentially/inevitably bring great disappointment and upset into your lives as you start your own family.

I had extremely toxic grandparents on one side who made my mum suicidal with their sheer awfulness. She carried on putting up with it in the hopes it would get better, which it didn’t, and my grandmother then turned her particular brand of crazy onto us as we grew up. She made our amazing wonderful mum fucking miserable and I so so wish she’d cut them off before the hurt was allowed to affect another generation.

We have no relationship with my DH parents. They’re terrible people. Our daughter will never know them, never be hurt by them, never see how they hurt her dad. Our most important job as her parents is to kept her safe from people who don’t wish us or her well and it’s one we take seriously.

Think again. Don’t let thinking about them overshadow what should be a happy peaceful time for you both.

I second what @Hoppinggreen and @AnneLovesGilbert say.
Toxic extended family is not what is necessarily in the best interest of the child and can be detrimental to said child.

If you are going to keep trying to mend fences I advice you radically lower you expectations. When they inevitably dont get a present for the babies first Christmas, dont get birthday presents or even acknowledge the childs birthday just ignore and dont be upset by it. Place them in the same emotional bubble as you would place a friendly neighbour. When you see then be polite and courteous but dont place any expectations there. If you decide to test or email do not expect a reply.
If you set your expectations low then they cannot upset you or baba.
If they start the ridiculous crap they started at your wedding be prepared to distance yourself perhaps for good

@AnneLovesGilbert and @Aimee1987 Thank you both for the very important points you raise.

@AnneLovesGilbert thank you for sharing your personal experience and the effect it had on your family. My own DH has gone through very similar issues to your mother, because of which I was admittedly hesitant to regain contact with his family. As you say they have behaved despicably at every opportunity we have given to reconcile previously (the experience I shared of our wedding day was the last in a long line of occasions and chances we took to reach out), so it is probably of little wonder they are behaving inconsistently again. Though nevertheless surprising considering their kindness in gifting us money at Christmas, and again for the baby's nursery last week. As @Aimee1987 advises, we should probably just set low expectations and not be too disappointed if contact dwindles again hereafter.

There is clearly an issue with the BIL’ gf.

I would never involve one family member in any issue with another, as you did when you told the parents you were surprised the brother had not responded.

Do you think the grandmother was encouraging them to send the Christmas cards? She may have good intentions but she is not (presumably) a magician.

In truth these people have behaved so badly, refusing to attend and then e mailing your family after the wedding was truly dreadful, that I wouldn’t be chasing contact.

There was a sort of friendly exchange, reply but don’t then pursue or follow up. If it’s their turn to reply, leave it with them.

I would proceed with extreme caution. Value the relationship with the grandmother, but she had had 2 goes at peacemaking now... you can lead a horse to water, and all that.

I’m sorry to hear his difficult it’s been

DH found seeing a therapist very helpful and I read Toxic Inlaws, which I highly recommend to you. The same author wrote Toxic Parents.

I’m concerned for you if I’m honest. Having a baby is such a special but vulnerable time, even in normal circumstances which these are not, and I wish you a happy, cosy, healthy, peaceful time as you wait for and then welcome your baby but it’s easy to let things ruin it. Imagine you’re currently in a circle of light (I’d say a bubble but I’m sick to death of the bloody word), your baby will join you in it, and you only choose to let people into it who treat you kindly, with love and respect, who support you, all 3 of you. Are these relatives of your husband’s those sorts of people? If not then protect yourselves. You’re worried about him and their ability to hurt him. I promise you the primal feelings of protection you’ll feel for your baby will be that multiplied by hundreds. You don’t need to invite potential hurt, disappointment, judgement into your lives and your new family.

The other thing I’d say is that if this pattern of behaviour from them to your husband is an old one, your baby arriving may bring all sorts to the surface for him. My DH has older children as well as our DD but having her, all tiny and wrinkled and perfect, brought home again to him just what spectacular arseholes his parents are. Some people experience a new empathy or compassion for their parents when they have children but others come face to face with how awful their parents or their childhood were and wonder how their parents could behave so badly towards them.

@RainingBatsAndFrogs During the time I have known her, she always came across as an extremely spoilt 'daddy's princess', who enjoyed a privileged upbringing and was the darling of DH's family for several years before he met me. Then the fact we got engaged and married within two years of meeting, with the first grandchild on the way, according to DH probably made her jealous (she pressurised his brother into trying to get us to change our wedding date, and threatened to leave him unless he proposed immediately). Surprising really considering DH's parents always made their preference for her over me very obvious.

I do think his grandmother was behind much of the effort made, which deep down causes me to question the sincerity of their actions, though I have not raised this with DH in an attempt to be supportive. I think if they continue to ignore us, I will make these feelings clear. I'm beginning to think he is almost at the end of his tether with it all too, and know he would be very swift to break contact again if they caused any more hurt.

If these people are inconsistent and prone to being awful, a lack of contact is preferable to frequent contact. Trying hard to invite these people into your life is asking for a repeat of "broken home" scenario. After much effort on your part, they will condescend to you, only to brush you and your child off the second you do something not to their liking. You are perfectly fine with your husband, you are a family. That his dysfunctional extended family is distant is a blessing. Leave it at that!

How does the grandmother defend their behaviour at your wedding?

Have you asked how sure she can be they won’t try to ruin your child’s first birthday etc?

How long have you given them to reply to the email before you sent the text and again before you mentioned it to the parents?

If they were giving you money last week all of this must have happened in the space of a few days.

Maybe you should back off and give them some breathing space? I’d certainly be feeling suffocated if in the space of a week you had emailed, texted to check I’d read the email and then told my mum on me for not replying!

@RestingPandaFace We gave DH’s brother almost a month (we sent the email on the 26th Dec), and then sent the text message a week and a half later. Under the circumstances I don’t think 3-4 weeks can be classed as ‘suffocating’ them, especially from experience of when we were in contact, their reply was usually very prompt. Naturally we we thought we may have emailed the wrong address, and raised it as we didn’t wish to be seen to be rude, though in retrospect it’s becoming obvious that they may have contacted us out of polite but passing interest.

This situation sounds all too familiar. I can relate on so many levels, from the religious issues, the jealousy, the wedding drama, and now your predicament. I know exactly what you are going through and why you feel torn. I also worry I know how this will play out.

We also made a huge effort to reset when we had our first child. I had been ignored for the full duration of my pregnancy due to it being out of wedlock, yet I offered an olive branch two weeks before due date by asking the MIL for help setting up a nursery, in the hope it would re engage her again and prove how 'worthy' I was. The first year of my child's life was full of instances of us reaching out and nothing being good enough for them. They complained about our baby all the time - didn't smile enough, didn't like what time they had a nap, didn't like my breastfeeding over bottle feeding, the way i faced the pushchair, even about how much contact my family had with the baby - which although it wasn't more was still nothing to do with them...literally everything we did failed their expectations. I tried to brush it off but it wore us down. My husband is lucky as he has three siblings. He is lucky because, he has seen this situation play out when they have multiple children. One of his brothers has, like you, cut us off and hates us over this. Another has, like you, had a similar timelines with marriage and children and seems more competitive about it. We were constantly compared to them as parents and our children were compared also. But his third brother has suffered the same treatment as us. And it is because of this, and seeing someone else received this unacceptable and toxic treatment, that we realised we did not have to put up with it anymore.

We want this to end now. We don't want a relationship anymore. It is not healthy for our children to witness their treatment of us. It will cause more confusion and upset than if we don't see them at all. We can offer a great foundation and a secure and loving family for our children. We do not need these people in our life - they have only hindered us and caused overwhelming stress for years. We are not standing full bullying and abuse anymore, and I think teaching the children that its okay to set boundaries and not accept mistreatment from people whether they are family or not, is the best gift you can give them.

I hope that you find a way through this, but it sounds like you would benefit from stepping back now. The grandmother helping you reunite has good intentions, but has found herself playing the 'rescuer' role in the drama triangle (look it up, really helped me) and could benefit from keeping out of it in future.

We have only decided not to bother with DH family since lockdown last year, so its been easy for us so far. I have loved not having their drama, tension and confrontation in my life. I feel free of it. I just hope we are strong enough to keep saying no once this is all over.

I hope you make the right choices for you, and remember if you decide not to bother with them now, it doesnt have to be permanent. I lost a relationship with my own father for ten years, and he is back in my life again as of 2018. This is because I set my boundaries and needs from the relationship and had lower expectations. I don't particularly enjoy his company still, but I have benefitted from building brilliant relationships with my half sisters, which is worth it for me. Things have been made better since taking a break, a step back, and building back again slowly when I was ready.

Good luck and keep focusing on you and your lovely little family x

@SkittlesRainbow Thank you so much for your very kind message and for sharing your own experiences, I’m very sorry that you’ve had to go through this. Having your first child should be a beautiful time for everyone in the family, and it’s very saddening when in cases like ours those family members don’t seem remotely happy or interested.

Like you, we’ve made several attempts to reconcile and heal the rift with DH’s family, and following their behaviour at our wedding we were quite content to drop all contact with them, though I think gentle encouragement from DH’s grandmother has perhaps inspired a last ditch attempt on our part, at least for the sake of our child. I think we are resolved not to try again if they continue to rebuff us (we discussed it tonight and conceded that our relationship with them will never be that close). Thankfully we have a very strong relationship with my parents and family, to whom we live much closer, so our children will always have grandparents around, which is what we wanted for them. I think at this stage we will be quite happy to stop pursuing a false hope, especially as we have not seen them for six months, and they’ve made no suggestion to phone call/meet up when able to!

I think it best to leave them to it. You don’t need them in your life and they don’t need you and the baby. Stop making things hard for yourself. Enjoy your life and your new family, that’s you, your partner and baby.

People drift aprt or don’t get on, even family, that’s just the way it is.

If smile if/when I saw them but I wouldn’t be putting in any effort to have a relationship, there’s no need, it shouldn’t be work.