Alcohol when pregnant

[bluemoon2468]

I'd sort of like to see how the land lies on this one! I'm 5+3 and personally haven't had a drink since before I conceived because I was doing dry January.

I've just finished the book 'Expecting Better' which is written by a health economist who had a baby of her own, and decided to research the 'facts' behind conventional conception/pregnancy/birth wisdom and advice. Among other things, she concluded that there is absolutely no evidence that light-moderate drinking has any negative effect on mum or baby whatsoever. The only existing evidence of any issue is with heavy drinking, particularly regular heavy drinking. This is in contrast to say, smoking, where there is a lot of evidence that even occasional smoking negatively affects your baby. She talks about the fact that in many European countries, women are not routinely told to cut out drinking all together, but just to moderate it (these countries have no higher rates of miscarriage, disability, pre-term birth etc.) My own mum said that when she was pregnant with me, the medical advice at the time was not to go tee-total, but to limit drinking to one glass of wine per day, which she did.

This having been said, is anyone willing to 'admit' to any light drinking during pregnancy? I'm certainly not planning on regular drinking, but am considering very occasional drinks e.g. a small glass of prosecco on my birthday or our wedding anniversary. No hate please!

I drank a small glass of wine (100 mls measured) almost daily after the first trimester.

I’d read the same book and felt this posed no more risk to my child than gardening, driving etc.

It was an evening treat that I enjoyed.

I found out I was pregnant at 27 weeks
In that time I got blind drunk a couple times, tried experimental drugs, smoked like a chimney, went on rides that get 4g of force, lifted things that were more than half my body weight, guzzled energy drinks and coffee, ate whatever I liked, if I ate that day.
Dd was born full term and healthy

If I felt like a drink while knowingly pregnant, I'd have one

I’m feeling absolutely terrified after reading this thread, as I drank quite heavily for the first three weeks before finding out I was pregnant. I haven’t touched a drop since and am now 28w, but am freaking out that my baby could have FASD.

loveislovely your statement The AAP is the American Association of Paediatrics who are literally the only evidence based research group worldwide is laughable. Every reputable medical journal and medical body’s studies will be evidence based!

Aside from that there are an overwhelming amount of RCT’s that conclude even high levels of drinking do not affect breastmilk. The risk is in caring for your baby whilst intoxicated.

I didn't during first trimester.

After that I drank maybe 2-3 times a week but tiny amounts so about a quarter of a glass of wine or quarter of a pint of beer at a time. It was still lovely to sip.

Lots of non alcoholic beer too!

ncagainforfeb please don’t worry. Many women are in your position. Before your placenta implants your baby is not even connected to your bloodstream so would have no crossover of alcohol. Try to relax and enjoy your pregnancy.

You decide if you want to risk it. You may have read a book but now up to date is that book?

I never had alcohol in pregnancy. I didn't want to risk/potentially harm my baby over a glass of alcohol occasionally. No thanks.

Ach @MoonBaby1 give over. I've just had a baby and I'm operating on about an hour of sleep here. You could have just asked me to explain instead of using words like 'laughable'.

I meant in the context of giving paediatric advice. The AAP is the national body for the USA in the way the NHS is for us, but half of the NHS's advice comes from charities and isn't actually based on evidence.

That's what I meant, no need to be a dick about it.

@bingbangbing yes I've read all of the links that people have been posting - I haven't seen much in the way of actual evidence. Most of it has been quite poorly written and not backed up particularly well, and other links have talked about alcohol exposure at much higher levels than I am talking about.

@ncagainforfeb please don't worry. Your child will be fine. The majority of pregnancies aren't closely planned, and the majority of women are drinking before they take a positive test. Think about every unplanned (or planned) baby conceived over Christmas and New Year every year! FAS is caused by sustained drinking throughout pregnancy, not by drinking before your baby is even fully implanted! My baby is planned, but had I not been doing dry January then I would have been drinking up until I took a positive test.

I didn't realise that I was pg until I was around 10 or 11 weeks and consumed alcohol in that time period. After that, I had a smidgeon of wine at New Year and my birthday. You'll probably find that you can't tolerate the taste of alcohol for the duration anyway.

I was the same- I was on holiday the week before I found out.

Prior to implantation I believe that the egg lives off its own "egg white" for want if a better word. Which was formed while you were in your mothers womb. Which is amazing!

Anyway, drinking before implementation (which happens around when your period would be due) doesn't count.

Well you've made your decision OP.

Many won't agree with you.

I genuinely don't understand why you would knowingly consume a teratogenic substance while pregnant.

@bingbangbing I really haven't made my decision at all! I still don't know if I will have a drink. But I certainly haven't seen anything convincing on here that would make me feel strongly against it - some people making wild claims about FAS relating to one to two drinks in pregnancy just seems so ridiculous that it makes me conclude that there must not be an awful lot of (any) evidence demonstrating the dangers of very, very low level drinking.

loveislovely I’m sorry my post upset you so much. I’m on very little sleep here too!

My understanding however was that many US studies into FASD in the states that are sponsored by right wing, anti alcohol, church based charities.

In the UK anything approved by the NHS has to get through NICE and the WHO first. It is not charity based.

Well yes, it sucks. I love having a drink on special occasions and yes xmas, new year, birthdays, etc. it wasnt the same without. But i couldnt have lived with that guilt.
I think in the end you just have to decide whether the risk is worth it.
You say you want to wait til the second trimester, because you dont want to blame a possible misscarriage on the drinking, but what happens if not everythings perfect in the end? Problems at birth maybe? Or anything really that doesnt go smoothly.
For me, i would always be wondering 'is this because of my drinking?' and i couldnt live with that.

The whole argument that the rules regarding pregnancy and alcohol is a result of the patriarchy, or judgemental or condescending of women is thoroughly demolished by a female doctor in one of them

I’ve not been tinker the patriarchy but are you seriously suggesting the fact one woman has written an article means there is no patriarchal element to this? That’s not how patriarchy works.

I seriously don’t get why you’re so determined to judge other women who have read the evidence and simply don’t agree it says what you think it does. I asked, and the OP has asked, for evidence that three or four drinks spread over an entire pregnancy can cause damage. We have both said we will reassess if there is such evidence, and for my part I meant it - but no one has provided any.

*mentioned not been tinker

Fasd has over 400 co-occurring conditions, including damage to the central nervous system (brain), vision, hearing, cardiac, circulation, digestion, and musculoskeletal and respiratory systems, among others.
A Recent uk Study has found that an estimated 17% of the population may have fasd. www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2018/november/first-uk-prevalence-estimate-fasd.html
As It is an invisible disability and may not present for many years as it is a neurodevelopment disorder.
Many may have also been misdiagnosed of autism and adhd.
In the last 20-30 years levels of drinking in society have greatly increased, cheaper supermarket alcohol and higher strength have led to drinking unknown units, as one glass drunk at home may be up to 3 units.
Being armed with as much information as possibly, people are playing Russian roulette with their baby’s future. So the safest advise has to be to not drink at all when pregnant or make sure contraception is used when not trying.

'I’m feeling absolutely terrified after reading this thread, as I drank quite heavily for the first three weeks before finding out I was pregnant. I haven’t touched a drop since and am now 28w, but am freaking out that my baby could have FASD.'

This is one of the dangers of the overblowing (as the OP says) going on on this thread. Real harm to pregnant women's mental health and wellbeing.

And what ClubfootMaestro said about patriarchy.

To be fair this is probably as easy one to investigate.
In the U.K. it's fairly typical to abstain from alcohol while pregnant. In other countries it's still perfectly acceptable to enjoy a glass of wine or whatever as long as it's in moderation. Incidences of FAS would surely be higher in these countries if even one glass of wine was a risk.

Disclaimer: I wanted to say France as a country where women still enjoy a small glass of wine with their evening meal but that's on the basis of knowing one pregnant French person. I wasn't 100% confident I could apply it to the whole nation!

Unfortunately it is very hard to diagnose fasd as it is an invisible disability and is also a spectrum so there are varying degrees of the disorder.
It should be more widely made aware if the risks of drinking the same as smoking. One person may be fine the next not. As in the seat belt analogy, why take the risk.

A quick read through some French pages suggests that French women are also advised to abstain completely these days as an 'ideal'. The state of information seems to be pretty much the same as here, with everything from scaremongering to considered information to minimisation.

We can't shield pregnant women from reality in case it frightens them. That's treating us like children.

Alcohol is known to cause birth defects. It is impossible to prove that it is safe even in small quantities. It may cause minor damage. It has probably been causing damage to babies for centuries.

Ergo, consuming it during pregnancy is not a good idea.

I felt too ill to drink with DC2 and didn’t at all with DC1.

For most it’s fine, but alcohol really gets me, I can drink the smallest amount and feel tipsy, which I don’t think is right while pregnant. Also it makes my blood pressure go funny and I can feel faint.

So although it’s ‘safe’, I think it depends on the person.

Also it is such a short period of time, I mean why bother. DC2 is breastfed and over 6 months and I still haven’t had a drop. I’m too tired!

Alcohol is known to cause birth defects. It is impossible to prove that it is safe even in small quantities. It may cause minor damage. It has probably been causing damage to babies for centuries

Indeed Hogarth knew a thing or 2 about it.
Google gin land FAS