Alcohol when pregnant

[bluemoon2468]

I'd sort of like to see how the land lies on this one! I'm 5+3 and personally haven't had a drink since before I conceived because I was doing dry January.

I've just finished the book 'Expecting Better' which is written by a health economist who had a baby of her own, and decided to research the 'facts' behind conventional conception/pregnancy/birth wisdom and advice. Among other things, she concluded that there is absolutely no evidence that light-moderate drinking has any negative effect on mum or baby whatsoever. The only existing evidence of any issue is with heavy drinking, particularly regular heavy drinking. This is in contrast to say, smoking, where there is a lot of evidence that even occasional smoking negatively affects your baby. She talks about the fact that in many European countries, women are not routinely told to cut out drinking all together, but just to moderate it (these countries have no higher rates of miscarriage, disability, pre-term birth etc.) My own mum said that when she was pregnant with me, the medical advice at the time was not to go tee-total, but to limit drinking to one glass of wine per day, which she did.

This having been said, is anyone willing to 'admit' to any light drinking during pregnancy? I'm certainly not planning on regular drinking, but am considering very occasional drinks e.g. a small glass of prosecco on my birthday or our wedding anniversary. No hate please!

I have a small glass or two of red each month, about a units worth. My diabetic consultant says it's excellent for my blood sugar and heart health and that there is absolutely no evidence of harm in those quantities, drunk slowly with food as it's metabolised before it goes anywhere near the placenta. I did the same in my previous pregnancies and do not have children with fas or LDs so I'm quite confident my very educated consultant knows what he is talking about. In fact he said to me the guides are there to work with the lowest common denominator, those who think that non risk means it's ok to down a bottle of vodka a week. Women obviously cannot be trusted to monitor 1 drink a week, so they say none.

I had my babies a long time ago, but it wouldn't have entered my head to drink alcohol at all while pregnant. I love a drink, but it wasn't worth the risk. I'm sure back then the advice was not to drink at all. It was an easy sacrifice to make for nine months. There's enough to worry about during pregnancy after all, without adding concerns about drinking to the mix.

Travelling is often a necessity.

Alcohol is not

You’re doing your very best to try and convince many women that drinking in pregnancy is ok

I can’t believe you want to risk it.

You’re doing your very best to try and convince many women that drinking in pregnancy is ok

OP isn’t doing anything of the sort and it’s this sort of judgemental attitude to other women’s bodies that really drives me crackers

So, which other bits of NHS pregnancy advice are you going to ignore?

And it's not about 'judging' women. It's science.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/02/05/style/drinking-while-pregnant.amp.html%3f0p19G=0038

I’ll ignore the advice from the NHS that it’s ok to go to 42 weeks in light of the recent study that had to be stopped on ethical grounds due to the poor outcomes for such women.

They also recently changed their advice on eating runny eggs.

They also talk bullshit about the risks of vaginal birth and having fallen for it last time, this time I’ll be having a caesarean.

It’s naive to think that everything the NHS says is gospel.

OP is 5 weeks. 5 weeks !! so so much is going to change in the next few weeks, never mind months. TBH most women have at least some nausea in weeks 6-12 (while the really important organogensis is happening) no way would I drink in that window. Early days ? Well it will either stick or not drinking probrably decreases the chances. Trimester 2 and 3 you are just getting your baby as intoxicated as you, not a great plan.

The NHS actually often uses charities as the source of their information. As such, their advice isn't actually always evidence based and can be biased.

They still advice the use of blankets in cots which is just ridiculous.

I always read the AAP website for anything to do with the children's health since everything they advise is based on research.

They advise no alcohol during pregnancy. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️ I don't judge anyone for not following every piece of advice, it's your body, your baby. Nothing to do with me. But I find it weird when people don't do the research to make an informed choice.

@ClubfootMaestro

I saw that study.

My Trust now induces earlier.

The fact that NHS advice changes is a good thing!

This thread is bonkers. We have actual evidence that a substance genuinely causes birth defects. Yet some people are still arguing that it is their right to consume it?

Legally you may have that right. Doesn't make it the right thing to do.

It's no different to smoking, piercing babies ears, male circumcision, extreme raw vegan diets for infants, no books or exercise...

All things that it's perfectly legal to do to children yet none of them are good.

Why would you risk it? You wouldn’t give a unit of alcohol to an infant so why on earth would anyone think it’s ok to give it to a developing baby. A documentary showed what happened when a pregnant mother drank one unit of alcohol.. her baby stopped moving for 2 hours. Why? Because it was drunk! Alcohol is a poison which goes directly to your developing baby. Not every single baby will be effected by fasd if a mother drinks drinks during pregnancy BUT many will. It’s like playing Russian Roulette, why risk it. If anyone thinks it’s no big deal I suggest spending some time with families who are bringing up children with FAS/FASD. It’s a devastating disability which heartbreakingly is 100% preventable...by totally avoiding alcohol during pregnancy. FASD is more common than ASD I’m this country, but is well less known as it’s often misdiagnosed as ASD and or ADHD as symptoms overlap. As well as emotional difficulties many children have a host of physical issues and learning disabilities. Life expectancy of an unsupported person with FASD is 32 due to a predisposition to addictive and risk taking behaviours. I became a parent thanks to adoption and nothing could have prepared me for my child’s FAS diagnosis. Please, please, please lay of the alcohol whilst pregnant. One drink is one drink too many.

I agree that the fact that NHS advice changes is a good thing - but you posted a very simple question about which other bits people were going to ignore, which is what I was responding to (mine doesn’t induce at 41 weeks, and still describes forceps as “safe and effective”)

Where is the evidence that 2 half glasses of champagne over 9 months “genuinely causes birth defects“?

I’m an adoptive parent to two children with FASD (Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders). One (now 11) has ARND (Alcohol-Related Neurodevelopmental Disorder) - ie no physical signs but her brain is affected. The other (now 10) has pFAS (partial Foetal Alcohol Syndrome) - ie some of the physical indicators, such as a flattened philtrum. Her brain is quite severely affected - she has very little impulse control, struggles massively with maths, struggles to follow verbal instructions, etc. Both also have autism and ADHD - my understanding of the research is that where there is a genetic predisposition to autism and ADHD then FASD can tip the balance. As far as we know, their birth mum didn’t drink to excess during pregnancy. You don’t have to get drunk to cause FASD.

I love them both enormously, but daily life with two cognitively disabled and neurodiverse children is very difficult. We are on the receiving end of a lot of violent meltdowns and our house has seen a lot of damage. We have to keep internal doors locked because of the lack of impulse control and a propensity to take things without asking.

Our eldest is now in a residential special school, having been expelled from mainstream because they couldn’t cope with the challenging behaviour that resulted when her needs were unmet. She is now thriving with the right support. I am currently home educating our youngest while we fight for a special school for her (mainstream was just completely over her head, she hid her struggles at school and then exploded at home every day). She needs constant supervision. It is exhausting.

There is no known ‘safe amount’ to drink while pregnant. What one mother and child can get away with depends on genetics and other factors that cannot be calculated. It really isn’t worth the risk. For more information, I recommend the NOFAS-UK website (www.nofas-uk.org) and the FASD clinic website (www.fasdclinic.com). Both have details of the latest research.

The only safe level of alcohol during pregnancy in none. If you saw the damage alcohol does to children, life long damage, abstaining for 9 short months would not be hardship. You wouldn’t cradle your beautiful new born in your arms and offer it a vodka. Within the womb is no different. I am speaking for personal experience, please please don’t drink. The effects can be absolutely devastating 😢

I’m a foster carer and have a fair amount of experience with children who have FASD. I have my own birth child too, who doesn’t have FASD, and the differences are evident.

One of the last things to develop in utero is the liver. This means that although mum’s body and brain is being protected as much as possible by their liver, a foetus/baby’s body is not. Think about that - how much more vulnerable is the baby in comparison to the mum doing the drinking, with its massively underdeveloped liver?

Honestly, seeing the difficulties and challenges that FASD children face, constantly, repeatedly, day after day, week after week, I wouldn’t risk drinking alcohol at all during a pregnancy.

Research is still building; there is no definitive information on what is an acceptable amount of alcohol for expectant mum to drink. One mum could have a different level of acceptable than another, due to her own health, genetics, etc. My question is: if there’s no definitive point where the ‘safe’ becomes ‘unsafe’, why would anyone risk their baby’s life-long ability to live a fully rewarding, capable life, to have one of affected intellect, limited ability to live independently, take on information, learn, remember to change clothes, wash, brush teeth (even as a young adult), make friends, be invited to classmates’ parties, etc?

I would challenge anyone thinking it’s safe to drink throughout pregnancy to attend any FASD meeting where parents are discussing their lives and those of their dearly loved but neurologically damaged and limited, exhausting children.

Trimester 2 and 3 you are just getting your baby as intoxicated as you, not a great plan.

So if we're talking a small glass of wine drunk slowly over a long meal, not intoxicated at all then?

Oh, and two years ago I ignored the NHS advice to avoid smoked salmon and runny eggs, both fine now. And it turns out my friend makes her youngest's bottles in a way the NHS advises parents not to use, because it was fine when her eldest was born three years before.

It’s entirely your choice however I suggest you read up on Foetal Alcohol Syndrome and ask yourself is it really worth the risk. A child born where the mum has had alcohol is worse than a child born where mum had taken drugs. A baby born from a drug addict can be weaned off the drug however a child who ends up with FAS has invisible brain damage for life. Trust me I look after a young man who has FAS. Your baby may be lucky or your occasional drink may cause them to be damaged for life. Raising a child with FAS is challenging and tbh why risk it. You make the decision for yourself however remember once they have FAS there is nothing you can do x please read about FAS. We had never heard of it before we fostered our lad who is now turning 18 with an IQ of 56, many challenging behaviours and a brain function of an 8 year old x congratulations on your pregnancy xx

"@RichTwoTurkeyFriend maybe sometimes there's a tangible benefit to driving, like driving to work or to hospital appointments. But what about 'social' driving? If you drive to a friend's house to spend the day with them or drive to the airport to go on holiday are you being reckless and selfish because you're putting your own social life and enjoyment before the baby's safety?"

Are you honestly equating driving in pregnancy with drinking in pregnancy?

I too am a professional and nobody I knows drinks whilst pregnant.

@Ginger1982 I’m married to a doctor and most of our circle of friends on his side are doctors, including 2 obstetricians. Those who have been pregnant all drank in pregnancy, albeit at very low levels and not regularly. The only person I know who drank 1-2 drinks per week in 2nd trimester was a GP.

The evidence says what it says but if you’re implying no professionals drink in pregnancy then that’s not my experience at all.

Not disputing FAS is appalling, the issue is the suggestion that so much as one sip of alcohol can cause it.

Quite genuinely, if anyone can show a documented case of someone having a couple of half glasses over 9 months causing a birth defect or FAS then I would be interested to know as I’m pregnant now and was planning to have half a glass to toast an old friend at a funeral next week.

Ginger you see to know better than us who are looking after the children affected by FAS and the burg mother of my lad had the occasional drink and was not drinking excessively. In fact she was very high up I the medical profession and unlucky for her believing the odd drink wouldn’t hurt ended up having to pass her child to social services and also he has full facial rat feature looks as she didn’t know she was pregnant and had the occasional drink in her first 4 weeks. So if any of you pregnant ladies end up as unlucky as her please remember the FAS discussion here and please bring your child up yourself and don’t abandon them as they didn’t ask to be with this invisible brain damage.

I dont think women should drink when pregnant,if u want to drink then hold off getting pregnant until u are ready to give it up
Im not a drinker so my view is different to those who do drink.
I have strong views on it but we are all different in what we do,just do what you want its your choice.

Given the evidence that the body metabolises a unit of alcohol, when drunk slowly and with food, before it hits the placenta, I’d be really interested to hear more about all these cases of FAS in women who drink very lightly ie as above.

My understanding is that FAS is brought on by heavy and sustained drinking. As otherwise, surely a lot more people would have it? Ie many of us and our parents, who were born long before these guidelines came out?

Additionally, in the anecdotal cases of “I know someone whose mum only had 1-2 drinks and they have it”, I’d have to say I just don’t believe that. I think it’s much more likely that the mother would be so ashamed of having drunk significantly more during pregnancy that there would be a lie involved in how much she actually drank.

www.nofas.org/light-drinking/

I’m sorry @nimuexox are you saying that you know someone whose baby had FAS because she had occasional drinks in the first four weeks before she knew she was pregnant?