Dispatches - Undercover Mother

[Naetha]

Did anyone else here watch this? It terrified the life out of me, but I felt I ought to know what I was going in for,

The question is, is the post-natal hospital care really as bad as it appeared in that programme? The communication between midwives and patient was appalling - not only jumbled up gibberish, but also treating the mother like she's an imbecile, and frankly a pain in the arse.

Please give me some positive comments about hospitals!

had terrbile briths - really terrbile in Nottingham city adn Queens in Nottingham. At city I went in in labour and was given a brutal internal examination by a locum midwife who's cigarettes fell out of her top pocket onto my tummy whilst she gave the internal - which really hurt! thenhad a bad epidural which when all wired up was whipped out fast becuase the anaesthetist was claled to an c-section. The aftercare is really appalling - dirty wards, blood all over the bed for as long as I can remember.

The doctors and delivery midwives were brilliant though - working obviously under great pressure - mine had 3 deliveries to attend to at the same time

i flicked onto this and saw her complaining she was sitting in a pool of her own blood, she asked the nurse to change her and i thought the nurse was very straightforward on what she said....basically she said o., i'll just finish off what i'm in the middle of which was serving lunch and i will be with you., to which the women said what an hour or longer and the nurse said no not that long.....to me thats all quite straightforward, and satisfactory...nurse in middle of job will attend in a moment when shes finished task in hand.....what was wrong with that??????
I had twins in an NHS hospital, and they the nurses were sooooo busy i felt sorry for them , they let my husband stay so he could help look after me, but i wasnt offended, i thought it was a programme geared towards propaganda and turned it off

Stretched resources is the biggie imo. I was checked in A and E last week by an obs doctor who was also shouting advice into the phone back to the delivery suite she'd had to vacate to attend to me - she was probably 10 minutes walk away across a big site. Things had just got serious back there but she insisted on seeing me thoroughly. I was very grateful BUT that poor woman in labour - I hope someone else was able to give hands-on help in time. When I had DD 5 years ago though, the care both pre and post birth was good, and the mws were supportive and conscientious, so it's not always a bad scene.

If anyone wants to watch it, its being repeated on Weds night/Thurs morning on Channel 4 @ 4.35am........

My experience is that it is down to a lack of resources and recourses that are available are pushed to their limits. When you overstretch a service the people who are doing the job will suffer and in turn the people they service will suffer. I was in hospital for over a month prior to going into pre-term lab. The level of staffing was poor and the MW/nurses were all over the place. Their shift patterns were appalling and the level of supervision on the wards was poor. Most of the time due to the experience of the staff serious issues are picked up and prevented from serious consequences. However sometimes this is not the case and leads to devastation. The quality of care I received in labour was extremely poor when I needed it and had serious implications for us. My biggest advise for anyone is you know your own body, challenge anything that does not feel right and always ask to speak to the on call consultant/supervisor if you want reassurance or a second opinion. I will never again be polite and say 'well your the expert'.. I will indeed insist on what my body is telling me and go with my own judgment.
Don't get me wrong some places are extremely good and provide excellent care, but if things don't feel right for you question it, it is your right!

Maternity services in this country are a shambles at times, but we have them and they are free. They may not be perfect, but in most cases they are adequate. If people want service with bells on I believe BUPA might be able to help.

Agnes

Sorry Agnes, but I object to that. I'd be in favour ofa part-private syste as long as mothers on lower incomes were decently reimbursed, but I find it offensive to describe ordinary, safe care as 'service with bells'. Staff in NHS hopitals are admirable, but their working conditions are lamentable and ffs these places need better cleaning regimes! So, you can afford BUPA, so, you'll have less risks and feel better when you are discharged. Hmmm, interesting politics.

I don't infer that safe and clean care is service with bells on, I just hear a lot of people expecting more from the NHS that it is capable of providing. One to one care is out unless you are on a high-dependency ward and anybody who expects anything close to it is going to be sadly and rightly disappointed. To wait is not abnormal nor should it be unexpected. It's not what we'd all like, but it's not the end of the world either.

It would be wonderful if the entire health service could be given an injection of funds, but it's a sad fact that there just isn't the available funds for it. Maternity care is being further streamlined and pared back. Less midwives are being employed on wards, with maternity assistants being drafted in because they are cheaper. Sad, but true. This at a time when it is nigh impossible to get on a midwifery course at university (I've a friend in the middle of the process right now) just illustrates how barking the system is.

However, for the most part the units do what they have to do. Maybe without the kindly manner we'd like, maybe with less staff and fewer smiles than we would care for, but their jobs get done.

I hated all of the care I had with my daughter four years ago. Ante-natal care was shambolic at my surgery. The experience of labouring over three days with trips to and from the hospital to be sent home was dispiriting. The actual process of 'active' labour with a midwife I didn't particularly click with was uncomfortable and my after care was a little rushed at times. However, I've no right to complain. I wasn't neglected at any time. My needs were catered for in the main, and if my sense of personal importance was a little quashed, I dealt with the fact by remembering there were at least seven others on the postnatal ward the day after I had my daughter, and only one of them was there when I got there at two in the morning.

Sorry for rambling, I'm in a pretty vague state of mind right now but I just get so annoyed when people seem to expect so much from a service that is already stretched to breaking point. Clean and adequate is all I'm asking for

Agnes

I agree some of the editing was sensationalist and not fair.

Nurse/mw/assistant in middle of lunch detail.
I know blood is unpleasant but you do sit in it after you've had a baby. After I'd had my ds2 the mw left lots of pads and care mats and left me and DP to be alone for a while and for me to bath etc... but this was in private delivery room with attached bathroom, in area which is usually not high demand - my mw was busy toddling off to a leaving party.. but she was confident I was ok.

But not getting patient something to eat was poor esp after surgery , but I'd always ask DP to have some snacks in the cupboard when in hospital as you often feel hungry when food is not around. And the food is grim TBH

She should have had the mucous in cs newborn issue explained fully after or before the section.
But the waiting for a paed to repeat what she had already been told?

So yes the comms were bad, some of the personal care was scarce and late in coming.

I've never been in hospital for aftercare after having any of my 3. Luckily I had the choice.

I agree that the programme was targeting he wrong issues, though she may have been posing as a clueless first-time mum rather than the (allegedly) well-informd 2nd timer she was. Trouble is, I'm in hospital now and the sad fact is that it is only by becoming the patient from Hell that you avoid being dumped in a corner while all the daily struggles go on around you. Knowledge really is power, so going in wth plenty of verbal and dpcumentary ammo helps. In this respect, she should have shown she'd given some attention to what a cs procedure involves, but she also pointed out that a clueless mother can end up (sometimes) pretty confused. Now I' rambling...

I watched this programme with special interest as I'm booked in to give birth at the hospital in the programme (Whittington, North London). Frankly I was relieved that this was the worst that they could find. Having heard from my 81 year old father-in-law that he spent two hours begging ward staff for a spoon so he could eat his (cold) soup, I had no special expectations of great service in the NHS. My experience so far as an out-patient at the hospital in question suggests a system which is moderately shambolic and certainly not particularly polite (I always feel like I'm in the way), but not totally incompetent. I felt that Despatches had to make a story out of this journalist's experience, because she was all miked up with a secret camera etc. so they have to make a big deal out of problems like her getting her toast late. There are probably much worse stories of clinical negligence, serious mistakes etc. all over the place but unrecorded. It's a pity they couldn't find them with their secret cameras.

I didn't see this but heard about it.

I had dd at watford ( I think watford was mentioned in the prog) and the care I recieved during labour was great. My midwives were lovely. Made me feel great.

The post natel care was ok too. Tbh I didn't need much 'care' as I'd not had a c section and my baby was ok. It was my 2nd and I fed her well and didn't need help. Thank goodness. There were lots of staff around and they were nice and friendly.
I had ds in the L&D and didn't notice as many staff around when I had him. But actually I was put back on the ante natel ward after he was born so in the wrong place for ante natel care anyway.

rubydarling thats awful about your FIL and the spoon.

I finally watched this last night and have to say that I think she had some reasons to be a little let down by the care she received, but I equally think she made a big deal out of some things which didnt warrant complaining about.

It really annoyed me when she was moaning about being hungry...surely it is standard to pack snacks in your hospital bag? I wouldnt expect a midwifes priority to be about getting food to me - I really think that this was her responsibility.
And it also annoyed me when her DH was complaining about the chat the doctor who was booking her in had with her about her decision to have an elective c section. Errr, thats his job and responsibility. To check that this is something she wanted and to check that she had been offered all the information. It would have been worse if this chat hadnt been had surely???

I think it was on the whole sensationalised and trying to match the panorama doc (which I thought was a far more interesting bit of viewing).

I didn't see the programme - would have liked to - but there are a couple of points brought up along the way I'd like to address.

MixedMama - the hospital I was in (central london teaching one) had a lot of nursery nurses on the post natal ward. These were effectively health care assistants mean to take over routine midwives' jobs. They were absolutely appalling!!!!!!!!! I had an em c/s after 21 hours of induced labour and asked for painkillers when on the ward. I was told I didn't need them because I'd had already and I couldn't be in that much pain. I told her I hadn't had any and she said it was in my notes. When I finally got hold of a midwife she confirmed I hadn't had anything.

My ds had low blood sugar and the nursery nurses kept on trying to force feed him formula and then up blood tests. At this point I refused until a paed confirmed the change. Strangely enough the nursery nurse backed down and didn't do any extra tests.

When we were readmitted for ds' jaundice a nursery nurse actively tried to stop me b/f and ignored the fact that I was very ill with a condition on my notes, with my dh telling her what the problem was and her response was "she's not responding to me deliberately". If my family had not been with me the entire time, I would have been in a coma if left to her care.

The point is that this hospital is using unqualified assistants to take over the job of m/ws because they don't have enough money for more m/ws. Putting power in the hands of these people could result in really dreadful things.

Re the complaint about food. I had taken in snacks with me but when you've been in labour for 21 hrs gone through a traumatic operation and have a little baby do you really want to only eat jordans bars? It says snacks not full meals! I was refused meals (lunch and supper) by the dinner lady because she said I had to order at 9.30am. I was only transferred to the labour ward at 10am! After my dh persuading her to call the kitchen - surprise, surprise food was available.

Also even if you research cs and the recovery you need someone to tell you whether it's ok to move and be around to pick you up should you fall over. You need advice not just don't pick up anything heavy with a description of heavy as you'll know what's too heavy. Great.

The NHS is in financial crisis and we're suffering as a consequence.

That is appalling... my suggestion was using the assistants for the more mundane things like getting the breakfast, changing the sheets, having a chat if the patient feels so inclined. I would have considered your scenario to be what the midwives were being freed up for. I was just trying to think about alternatives to the situation at the moment. Volunteer doulas would have external training and therefore not be a cost and also as volunteers more likely to be committed. Of course it is every patients right to request a proper midwife and certain cases should be a prerequisite.

This hospital had assistants for serving meals and changing beds (although not at w/ends for beds). Volunteer doulas would be a good idea if anyone was willing to do it. The only voluntary staff on the ward were b/f counsellors and some of them were absolutely brilliant.

Maybe volunteers is the way forward then as at least then people are defo there cos they want to be.

Have just stumbled across this. I watched the programme with interest as it was about the hospital where I had my baby in May, and I found it a bit weird. The postnatal ward was shortstaffed, but there are some things that really puzzle me.

Also, I have two friends from a postnatal class who gave birth in the Whittington and who first met each other on the same labour ward tour as the journalist from the programme. Apparently she was asking a lot of seemingly very strange questions and winding both the midwives and the others on the tour up.

I thought her choice to have an elective caesarian for the reasons she did so was strange. As was consulting a private obstetrician on her options. I had shared care which meant being seen for antenatal appointments at different times by hospital staff (consultants and midwives) and my GP.

There are real problems about postnatal care in many hospitals, definitely they could do with more staff, both midwives and other staff with training and experience to help out on certain things. But I didn't think that the tone of the programme was especially helpful.

after 3 births my advice to any new mum & partner/supporter is to be a complete pain in the backside of each & evey member of medical / midwifery & nursing staff. Believe me, childbirth is a medically short & contained process - you have nothing to lose! Assert yourself at every eventuality, take yr own food in & challenge & be present (supporter) at each post-n possibility, do not take 'no' for an answer - ask them to justify the rationale in YOUR CASE (there is flexibility). Sadly the real professionalism of staff is worn down to minimilist jobsworthness thru' cutbacks, sad but true,(these people must weep over what they said about supporting women in their job applications) If I was in their thankless, understaffed position I'd be doing the same. Shout loudest, as my mum says 'shy bairns get nowt'

Its a pity that you have such a cynical view dimcat, you must have had some hideous traumas in your birth experiences to justify such sweeping and unpleasant statements.

You will never get the best out of the system if you go into each medical situation as a confrontation to be fought, and if you try to be a complete pain in the backside to everyone you meet, then in my opinion, you will deserve what you get.

You are supposed to be working in partnership with these people to come to a good outcome, not to fight with them all.

What makes you think that the medical and midwifery staff are going to go out of their way to make things all lovely for you when all they are faced with is an angry, pushy and judging by the tone of your post, abusive patient?

I agree some staff are just jobsworths, also that postnatal care especially is dire in some places, but most staff love their job and do their absolute best for their patients. And of course we get p'd off with cutbacks, but thats life - either put up with it or get out the system, because surprise, surprise, its not going to change!

So to anyone else who wants a really crap time in the hospital system - then listen to dimcat.

Sorry about the rant and the OTness, but a post like that is really unhelpful to everyone, patients and staff alike.

Mintpurple - I agree. In a system where resources are finite those who have greatest need should be top priority. Not those who shout loudest.

And my understanding from what my friends said is that the journalist on the programme was behaving in exactly the way that dimcat advocates, and the effect on the staff at that point was as mintpurple describes.

volunteer doulas wouls surely need to be on call though and tay for the duration of the birth? This will eat into their erning potential surely?

I had my 3 at barnet and the labour care was fantastic. the post natal wasn't great but they were very understaffed.

I worked at QE2 in Welwyn Garden City for 6 months and I can honestly say that everyone of the midwives that i came into contact with was doing their absolute hardest to make sure everyone was cared for appropiately.

Meals are orderd "just incase" they are needed. Beds were changed in bewtween evey patient and of course whenever they were required. At Handover, everyone was made aware of the c section ladies and we all knew how long everyone had been in for and what their "needs" were.

Undercover mothers only told most of us what we know....the NHS is struggling and are very short of staff.