Free-Birthing...insanity?

[PregnantGrrrl]

I saw a discussion on 'free-birthing' yesterday, which i had never heard of before.
It was bonkers (IMO) it involves no scans, no tests, no drugs, no doctors / midwives.

I'm all for doctor free, drug free, home births but going without even a scan or a single blood test seems madness (and so potentially dangerous) to me.

The woman who heads the movement has has 5 kids this way, and says we don't need medical intervention of any kind.

What do you think? Have you / would you?

I think I would if I weren't so aware of the facts!! LOL
There are too many things nowadays to be afraid of (birth defects etc) and, I suppose, it depends on whether or not you're prepared to cope with any outcome!

It must be a personal thing though, I know that I wouldn't necessarily cope if BB was born with something that I wasn't prepared for, which still could, technically happen, but the tests are there to give some indication.

Some women are just very strong I guess.

My last pregnancy went the whole way without a hitch, and, looking back, I could've done things that way really, but this time I'm more scared of what might go wrong, and will probably end up having a hospital birth because of it!!

But having a safe delivery unassisted isn't about being strong it is about being lucky.

Does that mean that I was merely lucky the first time?
The midwife was there but she sat on the floor most of the time! She even said she didn't need to be there really LOL
I think, as long as you can honestly say that you are young, fit and healthy there's not a lot, physically, that can go wrong with the birth, it's more the baby's health that they're there for (IMO)

lucky, yes, but also willing to accept high degree of risk, unless really naive and illinformed and actually believe labour will always go swimmingly.
when I was reading up on c sections, I found out that up to the 90's in the UK, you could be emergency sectioned (as in insane) if you refused a section (as in c )and the c section would be carried out against your wishes. this did happen to people. you were deemed 'mad' quite literally, to be going against medical advice. I believe it might be worse in some states in the US for women who choose to vbac against doctors advice. Hence women become suspicious of everyone and everything medical and decide to go it alone. I don't think that makes them or their choice mad or irresponsible but high risk, yes

sorry kyala - 'lucky' refered to mb's post,not answering your question

having a positive mental attitude, being prepared, relaxed etc can only be for the good, and will obviously assist in having a good delivery.

However , regardles of how relaxed fit and young you are you are, the position of the babies head, the size and shape of your pelvis have a massive impact on how 'simple' the delivery is.

Placenta previa can happen to the youngest and fittest of women. If you get it, it is just down to bad luck. the same is true of pre eclamsia.

Luck has a massive effect in child birth.

Kyala - I am young, fit and healthy. I also developed severe pre-eclampsia at lightening speed. If it had not been for medical intervention my baby and I would both be dead. The terrifying reality is that pre-eclampsia is responsible for 76,000 maternal deaths and 500,000 infants death worldwide every year. I consider myself extremely lucky that I had access to free antenatal care and find it almost insulting that women in the western world are refusing a service that so many others are desperate for.

I am currently in my second pregnancy and I have never had a scan or any blood/urine tests. ALL tests are choices and just because some conditions can be picked up, doesn't mean that people who refuse the tests are insane, mad, selfish etc. I think it's quite narrow-minded to assume that refusing tests is wrong.

A mw in my first pregnancy actually put in my notes "patient thinks that pregnancy is natural" as if I was wrong. I think this is something that a lot of people do forget - it is natural and women should make choices that are correct for them, not what everyone else is doing.

A scan does not guarantee a healthy baby or birth!

Asur, yes pregnancy is natural. However, in my last pregnancy it was diagnosed as partial molar at the 12 week scan. If I hadn't had it diagnosed I would probably be in the final stages of cancer now or dead leaving behind a beautiful son and hushand. It was all very natural but so is arsenic.

Personally, I think it is irresponsible to refuse medical care when another's life is at stake. Just want to point out, though, that the freebirth 'movement' is very small-most women in the US wouldn't have even heard of it.

Pregnancy is natural. So is death in child birth. Luckily we humans have big brains and have worked out ways to help women and babies when they get into difficulties.

I think the freebirth movement shows that the ability to have babies is not an indicator of the possession of common sense.

Asur- a scan or blood test doesn't guarantee a healthy birth. However, there are rare instances when it can save your/your baby's life. DD was diagnosed with extreme hydrocephalus in utero. Had we not known ahead of the birth, she probably would have died (and perhaps me as well)because there was no way her head would have fit through the birth canal. I believe birth is natural. But, I also believe medicine/science can save lives.

I'm not saying that I don't believe that medicine/science can save lives. I do think that it is all down to choice though and I would never say someone is insane for doing what they feel is right for them.

No-one says that it's irresponsible not to have an amnio - it too could find numerous problems that could be managed.

I think everyone is free to make their own choice and should not be judged on their decisions. I'm not saying freebirthing is right or wrong but I believe that freedom of choice is right!

kyala, I had ds at 28, young, fit, healthy. 50+ -hour labour, dodgy heart traces, episiotomy, ventouse, big blood loss. Got pg with dc2 at 30, two enormous bleeds at 17 and 21 weeks, placenta praevia. I think you were lucky, yes. And so was and am I - that medical help, scans etc. were/are available to me.

ditto about a safe unassisted birth being lucky, I had an unassisted home birth, and luckily everything was ok. i did choose a homebirth, I definately did not choose an unassisted one, but the speed of my labour dictated it.

i dont understand how it is 'back to nature' either, haven't birthing women always had assistants?

I'm prochoice for women. However you cannot pretent at annattended labour is risk free, it isn't.

If you want to weigh up the risk and make an educated choice, then fine.

However saying that conditions like placenta previa are caused by doctors is utter bollocks. And anyone spouting that sort of cobblers has not made an informed choice.

Placenta praevia can be encouraged by previous D&Cs, e.g. for mc.

Suppose I should have left my blighted ovum last year inside me for weeks on end after diagnosis for it to all come out 'naturally'. [FFS emoticon]

rather like my own preclampsia would have resolved naturaly, with my death.

as I said earlier in the read my uncle in law works as a doctor in the developing world. He is currently trying to put in medical care for a tribal group in Indonesia who have no contact with the ouside world.

The women there have no medical care other than helping each other. their maternal death rate is one on eight pregnancies.

Granted they are not well fed, but 1 in 8?

in 1900 it was twce as risky for a woman to give birth as it was for a man to be a miner (and that was the riskiest job that exsisted for a man at that time)

Child birth is natural, but so is death during childbirth.

Just wanted to say that with my first child I was travelling in australia and so had no medical care or scans until I returned to UK at about 7 mths PG. I then went to my GP who was very kind and understanding and thought it was fine that I hadnt yet had any medical involvement. I did however, subsequently have a scan and a hospital birth. Don't forget most of our mothers never had scans either. It is a fairly recent development. 'Free- birthing' does sound a bit extreme though...

free birthing is not simply the absence of scans or tests..a lot of women choose to avoid antenatal testing for many reasons......it is the absence of medical assistance for birth , that is a whole different category

Yes I agree Lulumama, I can see why women would not want some/all of the tests scans (though I would not take that approach given that in some instances the routine tests can show up a condition where advance notice could make a huge and positive difference to the baby/management of the PG), I don't think that refusing tests is really in the same category as free-birthing. As MB says, there's a lot of luck involved.

Asur, so sorry about my post last night, I didn't want to sound so harsh!

Its just that when you said "A scan does not guarantee a healthy baby or birth!" it was a bit of an emotive subject for me. Like Nykate the scan saved my life.

Also, I am very much for informed choice for women, and thankfully so is the local hospital. Homebirths should be available to every woman and all women should have at least on midwife to assist their birth, with more on hand if needed.

The lack of midwife care and what is seen as over-intervention by doctors seems to me to be reasons given by free-birthers.

Personally, if homebirth wasn't an option locally to me or I wasn't confident that I could go to hospital and have the birth I wanted (thinking of the poor woman on that Panorama programme who was labouring in the corridor for 50 minutes) then I would either campaign myself for better services for women locally or join the NCT and the local Maternity Services Liaison Committee and hopefully make improvements for every woman in the area.

And lastly, when you said:

"ALL tests are choices and just because some conditions can be picked up, doesn't mean that people who refuse the tests are insane, mad, selfish etc. I think it's quite narrow-minded to assume that refusing tests is wrong."

I think that it would have been selfish of me not to have the 12 week scan. I thank my lucky stars every day that I am still here to share with DS's & DH's lives.

i think when your own pregnancy and even your own life and that of your baby has been saved be scans and tests, then it is harder to understand how people can refuse them

it is really quite emotional, like so many issues to do with birth

i had all the tests, my thinking was 'forewarned is forearmed'.. i am blessed with 2 healthy children, and i am thankful for that.

as a doula, i can understand why women want intervention free births, to labour on their own terms, to feel listened to and respected...but free birthing is a step too far for me...

I agree with you completely Lulmama.

I can understand people wanting minimal intervention, But birthing alone is potentially so risky. And as a doula you know that better than the rest of us!

My perception of free birthing is it is something quite selfish....I have read a bit about it, and been on some of the more well known free birthing sites...and the women have taken the issue of control to a whole other level....yes, they might want to give birth to their baby in a moonlit forest, but what about the baby? what if the baby did not breathe at birth? freebirthing is not about the baby it is about the mother. and when you are carrying a baby...you need to give some thought to the safety of the baby you are carrying, the baby has only you to ensure its safe arrival...so why would you turn down medical assistance?

and i am distinguishing between free birth and BBA..those are two different arenas, as one is planned and one isn;t