Free-Birthing...insanity?

[PregnantGrrrl]

I saw a discussion on 'free-birthing' yesterday, which i had never heard of before.
It was bonkers (IMO) it involves no scans, no tests, no drugs, no doctors / midwives.

I'm all for doctor free, drug free, home births but going without even a scan or a single blood test seems madness (and so potentially dangerous) to me.

The woman who heads the movement has has 5 kids this way, and says we don't need medical intervention of any kind.

What do you think? Have you / would you?

[Spider]

I think there's a lot of sense in it. I wanted an unassissted birth third time round but dh called the midwife. She arrived when I had already started pushing, with no equipment, and just sat in a corner.

I've had four home births with no scans and no drugs. I would have loved for dh to deliver ds3 on his own. I would, of course, call in health professionals at the first sign of any trouble .... but I think that we are all to eager to treat birth as a medical extraction which needs to be carried out rather than giving the power, support and trust to the birthgiver.

[lulumama]

birthgiver does not know if there is placenta previa, or CPD, or other complications that can lead to massive medical issues and possible fatalities.....I am all for no intervention, or as low as possible,and for labouring woman to take the lead...but some help is necessary, IMHO....

[DaisyMOO]

Well apparently there were some pre-agricultural tribes left until fairly recently and he is drawing his conclusions from them, which seems fairly reasonable.

I don't think he's an advocate of free-birthing as such, but he argues that the conditions of free-birthing, complete privacy and lack of inhibition, lack of stimulation of the neocortex, not separating the mother and baby before the placenta has been delivered for example, are the optimum for a safe birth for mother and baby.

His views on men in the delivery room are that they can inhibit a woman's labour through their own activity or anxiety and that it can also be detrimental to a couple's sex life afterwards.

WRT to women attending the birth - he says that midwives of the future should only be women who have had an unmedicated vaginal birth, not because those who haven't can't necessarily be good midwives, but it is the only way of guaranteeing that all midwives are capable of faciltating biodynamic birthing (he says the term 'natural' isn't a good enough description)

I find him really interesting (which is good seeing as I'm going on a course with him in a few weeks!) although I think his conclusions sometimes go too far from what the evidence shows and he is in danger of becoming too prescriptive.

[lulumama]

thanks daisy ! i hope you enjoy your course

i am going to read the book and some of his other stuff, as i am interested

[DaisyMOO]

Yes, but Lulu, truely undiagnosed placenta praevia is really rare. Normally there will be bleeding before or during labour at which point an educated freebirther would seek help. CPD is usually something that becomes apparent when labour doesn't progress and is rarely a 'we-have-only-seconds-to-spare' emergency.

To make myself clear, I'm not advocating freebirthing, but I really don't think it is about women getting the best 'experience' they can. Those who freebirth generally have their babies' best interests at heart and believe that it really matters how they are born, and freebirthing is the best option for the baby as well as the mother. It isn't something I would do myself but I'm uncomfortable with labelling it selfish because I don't think that it is a decision anybody makes rashly or lightly. Most freebirthers are highly informed and educated about the birthing process, although with some exceptions - I seem to remember an article a few years back about a freebirth that went wrong and the baby was very badly brain damaged because the couple didn't realise that it wasn't normal to push for 7 hours or something

[lulumama]

i take your point , and i was struggling to think of some obstetric issues that would make freebirth dangerous

PE, GD, prolapsed cord can all have implications too..

I did feel reticent to label free birth as selfish.. i am really pro natural , intervention free birth, but something about freebirth does not sit well with me

[LynetteScavo]

I had a home birth with one fabulous midwife, who apeared to do very little, but I'm sure in reality she did quite a lot.

I can understand not wanting to have any scans (although I found them really brilliant). I can understand not wanting to give birth with a stranger you've never met in the room. But to want to be without any support from an experienced person, I find very strange indeed.

[LynetteScavo]

I had a home birth with one fabulous midwife, who apeared to do very little, but I'm sure in reality she did quite a lot.

I can understand not wanting to have any scans (although I found them really brilliant). I can understand not wanting to give birth with a stranger you've never met in the room. But to want to be without any support from an experienced person, I find very strange indeed.

[nykate]

I agree that choice is the most important thing- women need to feel that they are in control of their labor/births. As long as it is informed choice.

Loopymumsy (hi from Nov thread )- I am a bit taken aback by your info about birth in the US. Just wanted to clarify that, while a Dr in attendance of a birth instead of a midwife is the norm, it doesn't have the same negative implication as here. A delivery nurse is usually doing the majority of the work (like a midwife), but for insurance purposes, a DR officially delivers. It really has more to do with the medical insurance companies avoiding litigation than anything else. My Dr. encouraged my VBAC and spent most of my delivery time massaging my perineum with oil. Not what people usually think of when they think of a Dr. assisted birth! No interventions even suggested even when progress was lagging. Midwives can usually be in attendance at birth, but for insurance purposes, they usually require the Dr. to be in attendance as well. Birth centres are becoming more and more popular and in some areas, are more popular than hospital births. The US is a huge country with a lot of diversity- but midwives, doulas, home births and birth centres are part of a general upward trend for women to determine the type of birth they want. Women don't have as much choice in some areas because insurance coverage can vary so widely between policies. One really has to be an advocate for oneself when choosing insurance/doctors.

Sorry for the long post! Have a bad habit of trying to explain the positives of both US and UK to the other.

[morocco]

another reason why mums in the us might end up trying freebirthing www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-08-23-csection-battle_x.htm

[mum2george]

Still don't think that you can safely go without scans or blood tests. Know that it does make the pregnancy feel overly medical but from my experience, partial molars affect 1:1200 pregnancies and the earlier the diagnosis the better the prognosis. Very few women die from it these days but that is because we have scans and blood tests and excellent follow-up care for anybody who has had it. And to say that a free-birther would "know" there was something wrong, well with my partial molar the pregnancy was going really well IMO and I felt fantastic. Usually have good intuition but really didn't see that one coming until we saw the scan.

Then there are all the other conditions that have already been mentioned, resus neg, gestational diabeteses, hydracephalis (sorry about the spellings!).

I'm all for women having choice but just don't think that freebirthers have there baby's best interests at heart, not when you look at how many things can go wrong. Had a great birth with DS but the MW still had to take the cord from around his neck and did a lot to protect my perineum, things that I couldn't have done alone.

[nykate]

It is very frustrating/confusing that different states have different levels of acceptability with birthing alternatives, as do different insurance companies. I've found it a bit confusing here as different areas of the country have different policies regarding antenatal care/testing despite the fact that it is National health care. But, at least it seems that a woman has a right to choose the type of birth she wants. Reading that USA today article was really depressing about doctors not being able to encourage VBACS anymore due to liability concerns in certain states in the US. Many women choose a repeat Csection out of genuine concern for health/fear/or convenience, but at least it's a choice!

[lulumama]

VBAC is being banned in some hospitals in the USA

but the sad thing is , it appears to be to do with the fear of litigations

surely there must be an easier way, like women signing a disclaimer saying they understand the risks? than just a blanket ban

horrific