Panorama has terrified me!

[oysterpots]

I'm not anywhere near any of the hospitals featured but the programme has just made me feel so like I won't be in control of what happens to me when I go into labour.

I know it's unlikely that anything bad will happen but is there anything we can do to make our own situations come with as little risk as possible?

Those poor people...

They are scaremongerers and if I was sitting at home pg and knowing I was going to one of those hospitals to deliver, I would be scared, I would be so scared that I may not make right decisions because I dont have an informed view.

Well, I suppose it is a lot easier to call the evidence of your own eyes, 'scaremongering' than to deal with it I suppose. I call it denial. Hooray for Panorama. I hope the bitch who told the poor woman to 'get a life' loses her job, but I won't hold my breath.

Oh yes I watched that too - in horrified fascination. So glad I never had to give birth in the UK. It seems barbaric.

Aloha: I am not trivialising anything that was said on the programme or that any woman has been through and I would never do that. We all have a voice and a right to be heard whatever our experience, whether we had good or bad experiences and that is my point.

This is not more of the same, I am just saying spend 30 seconds telling me the full picture, even if you want to tell me the horrors for the other 59 mins 30 seconds.

so should they have not shown it at all gingersj?

of course thousands of women give birth without any incidents but it would be very wrong to just ignore the state of some of the hospitals shown.

All I can suggest is that more people (yes, men too!) become midwives. If I had my career to do over again, I would seriously consider being a midwife. In the right conditions, what a fantastic job!

i do not seek to trivialise birth trauma, not one bit

i volunteer for the birth trauma association, i hear first hand from women about their trauma

there are still two sides to the coin, and many women do have a positive, safe and happy experience

i do not for a second pretend that many other women have a hideous time

the OP wanted to know what she could do to make her own situation better, and needed reassurance, that needs to be provided to

do not have a hideous time, obviously

FFS, I am not saying ignore it nor sweep it under the carpet - all of these things need to be heard. I am just saying tell me the real and full statistics of the hospital concerned so I can make my own judgement with all of the facts.

Having had the good fortune to give birth twice in a private Swiss clinic, what was shown on Panorama last night was beyond my worst nightmare. When is a woman more vulnerable than when in labour & giving birth? How can the NHS get away with this appalling service? As was mentioned, even farmers give their livestock more care.

probably something to do with there being a midwife shortage somewhere in the region of 10 000 midwives

i was quite surprised to see the lack of midwives at barnet there were quite a few students when i was there though that was 5 years ago

there are not enough jobs due to freezes and cost cutting...

it's crazy isn't it. how much do the people get paid to 'analyse' the incident forms get. or are they just filed away

So to reasure myself when I eventually go and visit Watford, what sort of questions should I be asking the midwives?
How many m/w do they have on at a time?
How many labouring women can they cater for?
What happens when they are really busy - what is their maximum number women to midwives - where do they transfer to?

I really hope that the m/w who told the woman "to get a life" doesn't get sacked. In the first place she didn't actually say it to the woman, but to herself in a store cupboard/sluice.

Yes it wasn't a nice thing to say but the poor woman was obviously extremly stressed out and at the end of her tether. Yes m/ws shouldn't say negative things such as this behind womens' backs and I bet she regrets it.

But I'm sure most people whatever their job is have at some time or another grumbled about a client or collegue, etc behind their back.

I swore at work the other nigt as had just sat down to start paperwork and one of my women buzzed and I'm ashamed to admit I muttered something along the lines of "for fucks sake". Not at her per se, but the fact that I can not get a minute to do something. But I'm sure if a secret camera had been on me it would have looked like I was a horrible, uncaring person.

Yes Stripey, I agree. We all have moments when we say a flippant comment that could look bad ...

southeastastra - there may well have been a fair few students about when you were at Barnet. Chances are they will now be working at Tescos.

Student midwives aren't getting jobs when they qualify due to the trusts not having enough money to employ them. Thats the whole problem.

There is no shortage of qualified midwives, there is a shortage of money to employ them.

Hmmm. Sacking an experienced midwife for muttering something under her breath, away from the woman, when in a situation of enormous stress.

Actually, Aloha, you'll probably get your wish. Because that's exactly the kind of twisted knee-jerk logic the NHS now employs when dealing with the crisis in midwifery.

PIUS IX - didn't see the program (although friend did and thought it was a bit one sided) but wanted to reassure you and wife that hvaing had twins fairly recently at C&W - I thought they were FANTASTIC. You are under consultant care because of having twins and a designated consultant at that rather than the nomal midwife process. Please don;t worry unnecessarily - they really are very good, particulalry at more complex situaions (which twins would be considered to be)
TFYI - afterwards should you need it the Paed day unit is also really good (if very slow!) and it has its own paed A&E (hopefully you won't need!!)but it is also very good

I also think the programme didn't give a very balanced view, without the fact & figures to back it up it was simply scaremongering.

Yes what happened to the featured women was awful, but it's not a typical experience for women at the featured hospitals, never mind at all hospitals across the country.

They also never really explained why 1 in 5 are unhappy, bar a few anecdotes quoted - some of this could be because of unrealistic expectations. For example a friend of a friend was "horrified" with her standard of care, because after a quick & straight forward labour she was sent home 6 hours later - her mother had told her she'd have 3 or 4 nights in hospital with the baby being looked after for her while she rested. Yes that might have been the case 20 or 30 years ago, but not now.

Yes we could do with more midwives, as most are working at or close to "capacity" most of the time & a bit of "slack" in the system would help everyone & reduce the number of times they are completely over stretched.

Yes some midwives are better than others & I met quite a few in my last pregnancy due to numerous complications, but I never had one who wasn't trying to do their best for you even if they were busy.

so if you're a first timer, please don't think you are likely to experience what panorama showed, yes there is a chance that any of us could, but it's a very small chance.

I am currently 38+5 weeks and was due to give birth in Barnet general hospital.

I had heard first hand stories from three friends who were recently told there was no room when in labour or needing to be induced at Barnet. Yesterday's program confirmed all my anxieties that BGH is far too busy and understaffed.

I am not usually easily swayed by TV programs but was left in tears by yesterday's panorama. I have as of this morning transferred hospitals and feel so much better for it.

Thank God For Panorama

I expect some people would say, watch a documentary, say, exposing extreme corruption in an organisation and expect half the programme to be about how none of the post room staff stole any paperclips
Or a programme about torture victims in S America, with a lovely bit at the end saying, 'but most people in S American haven't been tortured'.
It makes the people who have suffered feel utterly crap, I'll tell you that.
Nothing gets changed unless this sort of stuff is EXPOSED.
And as for that midwife, well what kind of disgusting, appalling excuse for a human being would say 'get a life' about someone who was clearly suffering and in agony? Someone utterly and totally unfit to do their job, that's who. If you have no sympathy, no empathy and no human kindness, ffs get out of your job. She sounds just like the lovely women who made my time in hospital so utterly traumatic.

And I tell you something, I wish I'd been MORE 'terrified' - ie warned about the truth when I was persuaded to stay in hospital without dh after being told I'd be looked after and given pain relief. I would have assumed they were lying bastards and simply refused to let him go. Then I might not have suffered panic attacks after my daughter was born. I just didn't know what they were like. More fool me, eh?

Aloha, I feel it inappropriate to be laughing at your analogies but they are very funny. I couldn't agree more about the "get a life" commment- she was told that the woman was crying, and that was her response. I find it hard to imagine anyone being so inhuman, however stressed.