Anyone else today's 'Observer' headlines about alcohol in pregnancy?

[atalantis]

I'm 14 weeks, and for the last 4 weeks or so I've been allowing myself one glass of lovely red wine on a Saturday night. I look forward to it every week; should I really have to stop? I'd be interested to hear your opinions...

?Pruni, I think you're right that women are often our own worst enemies when it comes to moralising.?

Not picking on you Lazyemma, but the pedant in me just wants to say that women are just as bad as men sometimes, but certainly not worse. It?s just a bee I?ve got in my bonnet about ascribing differences between the sexes when there isn?t any, sorry.

MLH, that?s exactly not what is being said here. There is no ?with us or without us? scenario, in fact the majority, nay all of us are saying drinking in moderation is okay, but don?t proscribe, or even pass laws that criminalise all pregnant females for having the odd drink ? which is what is happening in the US at the mo.

Not arguing against you having an opinion, just being mindful that some people actually want to pass laws that mirror the Taliban constitution!

I?ve has a drink ? not preggers though

Great post Mother's little helper.

I really just don't get the whole moral and putting women down side of this thread.

Science is suggestiong so far that alcohol consumption should err on the side of caution, because the affects are unknown. They will never be fully known because this is something anyone would be willing to test.

As alcohol affects everyone differently and babies arn't designed to metabolize alcohol it is best avoided. One women may drink one glass and have no blood alcohol level and one women may drink one glass and have a strong blood alcohol level there has been much evidencce of this, but no this hasn't been confirmed in pg women.

What we do know is, If too much alochol has detrimental effect why should a little alcohol have no effect?

Yes you should question all advice and recommendations, and then make an informed choice about your alcohol consumption while pg, I don't see this in anyway as demoralizing, taliban type behaviour.

I see it as empowerment to make my own decision.

No pg women is getting arrested for a couple of glasses, they are talking about complete alcohol abuse, and that is a very sad issue, That they are trying to think of solutions for.

Some people don't want their child to smoke before it's born.

Some people don't want their child to drink alcohol before it's born.

Some people say everything in moderation.

Some people say nothing with even just the tiniest of risks.

The fact is that these guidelines will carry on to be released and they will change all the time as we learn more, whether we choose to listen to the research is up to the individual.

Saying this information is rubbish or ammo for the pregnancy police is just stupid and the exact kind of thing that was saud when we suddenly started realising how bad smoking was during pregnancy.

But monkeytrouseres, this thread wasn't about whether or not people should pass laws, it was about guidelines, here, and people discussing whether or not they would drink, or think it's a good idea to drink, and that's what gave rise to all the complaints about moralising, carping on etc. I haven't seen anyone calling for laws here. Those digs about women moralising and bashing other women by doing so are an odd sort of way of saying it's only US-style laws people don't like!

If they are going to make it illegal for women to drink in pregnancy, couldn't they also make it illegal for able people not to give up their seat for a pregnant woman on the tube/train/bus, just to even things out?

oh, just read rest of thread - kathy said it better.

No MT, I think women are worse than men at times. And I'm a feminist, absolutely. But anecdotally, from my own experience, absolutely all of the criticism I've received about the decisions I've made in my own pregnancy has come from women. I know whereof I speak: I'm probably going to formula feed, as I had a breast reduction a couple of years ago, and you would not believe the unholy shitstorm this decision has caused among the (female) health professionals I deal with and the (female) friends I have who have had children already.

MadamePlatypus - they're not going to make it illegal for women to drink in pregnancy.

Message withdrawn

lol at being arrested for drinking a half-pint of lager down at the pub. "Madam! Are you pregnant?" "No, just fat."

Reduced drinking during pregnancy was one more thing that made me feel utterly miserable about being pregnant. It is the longest nine months of your life and all this trilling "It's only nine months!" makes me feel very weak and useless, but personally having a drink a couple of times a week, in a social occasion, made all the difference to lifting my spirits when I was pregnant.

If FAS was a HUGE problem that plagued wine-and-beer-drinking moderates then I would abstain. Otherwise, I wouldn't stop one of the few enjoyable parts of my pregnant life on the grounds of eliminating all miniscule risk, just as I wouldn't stop driving during pregnancy - no it's not ESSENTIAL, but it greatly improves the quality of my life, even if that makes me weak and pathetic.

haven't had time to read entire thread

but i was a tad that i was told about the new guidelines (in particular about avoiding alcohol entirely for the first trimester) at my booking appt - i.e. at 11 weeks pg

fat lot of use it was then

Ah but you see I would be angry at US style laws too.

However, I also see accusing women who think it's not OK to drink of only taking the moral high ground or implying that they're sharing that view just to make themselves feel better (and more [i]moral[/i]) as the true woman on woman attack that misses the real issue, here. And that's what I see a lot of the complaints in this thread as having been like - the US style laws have come in as an offshoot, but aren't what prompted those accusations.

I think we do a bit better when we assume other people are sincere and attack the substance of opinions, rather than impugning motives and attacking the people themselves.

Tutter, that applies to lots of dietary things, and does seem really mad. I can see why long booking in appointments can't easily be done at five weeks for everyone, given the number of pregnancies that end early, but maybe these days when you make a booking appointment they could point people to some appropriate web page and say try to read this now for information.

just read a follow up of that article published today, interesting one: here

PLEASE, don't drink. I read an article of someone who did a study on drinking while pregnant. It showed that after even 1 drink the fetus's movements are slower and not that co-ordinated as before! Would it hurt you to just stop untill you delivered your baby! THINK OF YOUR BABY NOT YOURSELF!!!

ha!

im not saying that alocohol is totally ok but if you have been in an academic environment before as i have, and married to a lecturer, you wouldnt trust just any study that is out there...

Oh read the thread tasja.

I love Michele Hanson, she's so funny

muminfife - thanks very much for your message. I don't think you're being preachy at all, although your obvious trepidation about posting made me laugh! I have heard of the book, but not read it. Mainly my decision has been based on reading the Breast Feeding After Reduction forums, advice from my consultant after the operation (which was only 2 years ago) and other factors. This is my first pregnancy, my first experience of being a parent: I don't want the struggle to breastfeed to overshadow everything else I'll be learning for the first time too.

You're right that health professionals seem to know very little about the challenges of breast feeding after a BR - they just know it's possible, and that's what they keep telling me, that I should "at least try", as if it's just that I can't be bothered or something.

jabuti - no one's going to be kicking themselves really hard if they give up alcohol for nine months and then a later (bigger, better, whatever) study seems to show no risk. On the other hand, if the later study replicates the results of the first, and they decided to ignore the first on the basis that you shouldn't trust just one study... well then they might be kicking themselves!

Whenever there's an issue with research it's a case of doing some kind of cost benefit analysis - you look at which way the wind seems to be blowing and what it'll cost you to take that into account, and then decide whether to do so. But when the wind's clearly blowing one particular way, it's hardly daft to pay attention to that, even while knowing about the limitations of any single piece of research or publication.

Not that I'm arguing for laws about alcohol and pregnancy, or anything like that, just that when there's so little cost involved for most of us in not drinking when pg, paying attention to which way the wind's blowing is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Not when it's colluding with an agenda that's out there to make women conform to behaviour prescribed by men which they don't want to do and isn't necessary, it isn't.

If you want to give up booze completely during pregnancy, that's absolutely fine and no-one else's business - no -one should be attempting to pour vodka down your throat and make you drink when you don't want to. But it is not reasonable to give up because society is telling you that they will disapprove of you and make you feel like a pariah if you don't. And that's what these news stories are about, not about medical evidence.

i guess im a skeptical when it comes to studies, for various reasons that i wont bore you all with.

but yes, the artical is not so much about medical evidence either... agreed with caligula.