Anyone else today's 'Observer' headlines about alcohol in pregnancy?

[atalantis]

I'm 14 weeks, and for the last 4 weeks or so I've been allowing myself one glass of lovely red wine on a Saturday night. I look forward to it every week; should I really have to stop? I'd be interested to hear your opinions...

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Agree with Caligula and Pruni. Living outside the UK, I am sometimes quite startled at the degree to which the UK government is currently bringing out rules, 'guidelines' and controls on people's lifestyles. I also very much agree that one strand of all this which is specifically aimed at controlling women. I do also see that healthcare professionals feel the need to protect themselves from litigiousness after the event.

Went off wine completely about a week before finding out I was pg this time round - I had enjoyed 3-4 glasses a week (despite bf - evil me ). Had a couple of sips of champagne (not even half a glass) on my birthday when I was nearly 12 weeks, but tbh didn't really enjoy it. (Had asked my gynaecologist beforehand if it would be OK to have a glass of champagne on my birthday and he said 'officially no, but ffs, what's one glass going to do?') Am now 14 weeks and liking the idea of wine again - expect I will have the odd glass every fortnight or so now the 1st trimester is safely past. I think, tbh, my body has been telling me what's safe and what's not (I also went off coffee and even tea to some degree, until very recently).

(or rather about a week before suspecting I was pg. After my mcs I was too scared to even buy a test and ended up going to the doctor at over 2 weeks late)

I really don't think this is about some sort of sinister anti-woman agenda. Nowadays there are health warnings about all sorts of things - trans fats, mobile phones, mercury in fish, passive smoking, long haul flights, genetically modified food - the list goes on. We've become hyper-aware, as a society, of the risks of everything around us.

And, you know - no-one complains that the health warning on a packet of cigarettes exerts undue control on individual autonomy; similarly, I've never heard anyone complain about the law that drivers must wear a seatbelt, even though not complying with that law has implications only for the driver and not for any passengers or other road users.

You're right, lazyemma - I do think, though, that there is an added moral element to all of this in reference to women/reproduction. We're moving, somewhat at least, closer towards the rather extreme degree of moral control exerted over pg women in the US.

I guess there is, if I'm honest. And what Caligula said about women being arrested for drinking a glass of wine in the US - that is pretty frightening, no two ways about it.

consultations on suggested wording for a label, saying 'Know your limits'

reminds me of: Harry Enfield

lazyemma, says it well, it's just like a health warning, they change and discover them all the time, yes you can choose.

I really don't see it as controlling women, that's just absurd, but think that way if you like.

upwind- that link's hilarious

now if someone could put a link to the US women being arrested for drinking that would be good.

I agree generally lazyemma, but there is a tendency in the press to vilify women for binge drinking and not men, and I think the Observer article ties in with this (rather than the government advice). And the seatbelt analogy doesn't really hold - it is an undisputed fact that if you don't wear a seatbelt and you crash you will be injured, but there's no clear evidence that drinking occasionally in pregnancy will harm the baby.

It's obviously easier for healthcare professionals to give the same advice of "don't drink" rather than conflicting advice from different agencies, but I really think they should leave it to the individual to decide instead of condemning women for drinking occasionally. Surely, as there is no clear evidence of risk, advising moderation is preferable? We're all adults after all!

I agree katybird - I don't think women should be condemned for drinking occasionally in pregnancy - in fact, I don't think condemnation is ever an appropriate response even for behaviours we know to be dangerous to the foetus, such as smoking in pregnancy. My point is a bit of a wishy-washy one about providing people with the means to make an informed choice.

This is nuts - in a move to cut down on female binge drinking, pregnant women are being told not to drink at all?

What kind of logic is that?

Do these people think we are all feckless idiots?!

This is on a par with makeup pencil sharpeners being redesigned so as not to leave a sharp point for fear we'll all blind ourselves when putting out eyeliner on!

Oh I get all middle class and outraged with this kind of stuff.

I can find a similar story on our work system but you have to pay for it online so no link - but here's a snippet:

States grapple with fetal-protection legislation
By Rick Montgomery
10 July 2006
The Lexington Herald Leader
In Arkansas, lawmakers are considering making it a crime for a pregnant woman to take a drag off a cigarette.
In Utah, a woman serves 18 months' probation for child endangerment after refusing to undergo a Caesarean section to save her twins, one of whom died. In Wisconsin and South Dakota, authorities can haul pregnant women into custody for abusing alcohol or drugs.
And July 1 in Alabama, Brody's Law took effect. It enables prosecutors to level two charges against anyone who attacks a pregnant woman and harms her fetus.
...
Critics of fetal-rights legislation see a slippery slope in the making. In some states, prosecutors have turned such laws against mothers whose behavior typically methamphetamine or crack use might have contributed to a stillbirth or costly birth defects.
Taken further, could authorities charge pregnant women who reject a doctor's advice to take prenatal vitamins and then miscarry? How about banning them from playing sports? And why not punish alcoholic men whose addiction, studies show, could affect sperm and produce birth defects?
"What we're seeing is a political trend in which the fetuses are coming first, and the rights of women ... are coming last," said Lynn M. Paltrow, executive director of the National Advocates for Pregnant Women.
...

interesting stuff on what happens in the US

I love a drink and am really missing it (13 weeks PG) but I think it is better safe than sorry. Giving up alcohol isn't such a big deal. I know it is not good for me even when not PG and I am sure it can't be good for my baby so i am willing to stop.

But everyone has to make their own choice, it is an emotive issue. I think everyone has to have confidence in their own choice and not feel the need to justify themselves to anyone. We are all adults and make adult choices as best we can.

god it's a bloody miracle the human race survives... PARP

The woman in question I remember reading about, wasn't charged.

But in South Carolina you can be now and it's only a matter of time before a prosecution is successful.

But really, people should be taking very seriously this development of controlling what women do while pregnant. It is dangerous. Not to me (except indirectly, any attack on any woman because of her sex is an attack on me, I'm with John Donne on this one), I don't think I'll ever be pregnant again, but to all other women who will be. It is an unacceptable attack on our autonomy.

Telling us we shouldn't drink at all during pregnancy isn't giving us information to make an informed choice, it's seeking to control us. There's a massive, obvious difference.

See, I think of the (potential) guidelines about drinking in pregnancy as exactly that - guidelines. As we don't know how much alcohol is safe to drink in pregnancy, and as people differ so widely in the way they consume and metabolise alcohol, it makes sense to advise people not to drink at all once they know they're pregnant if they want to completely avoid any risks at all. I agree with katy that there is an unavoidable moral dimension to this kind of discussion, but that doesn't mean I see any and every formulation of government policy involving health and pregnancy as another transparent attempt at control by the male hegemony.

and I should re-iterate - I've had the odd glass of wine myself in this pregnancy, so it's not like I'm speaking from a position of abstinence myself.

the midwife wont know the answer for something that not even researchers know for sure yet... i would be careful.

I don't see it as a transparent attempt at control by the male hegemony. That would be far too easy and simplistic. Control is never straightforward and simple, it's not necessarily conscious and it nearly always has to have some degree of consent to be effective. If you can get most people to agree that something is bad for health reasons/ moral reasons/ security reasons/ practical reasons/ whatever other reasons you can think of, the level of force you have to exert in order to control is so much less.

But as I say, it's not necessarily conscious. It's just a subconscious attitude that is slipping into public discourse, at the base of which is a profound distrust of women's right or ability to make judgements about their own bodies/ lives. How else can a policy which says: "A minority of them are too stupid to make distinctions, therefore, let's treat all of all of them as if they're stupid and tell them all the same thing" be interpreted?