I'd like to join NCT antenatal classes - but I'd also like a caesarian. Will I be a pariah?

[piggysgal]

Hi there

Kind of an odd question, I know. I am pregnant with no. 1 after many years of trying. I would really love to join the NCT in my area, primarily because of the potential friends I might make - I don't know anyone IRL in the same position nearby or otherwise, and it would be fantastic to pal up with other mums-to-be and get a support system going. But the problem is that for various reasons I want a caesarian section rather than a natural birth. I know the NCT are very big on natural birth, and have read that in some groups c sections are deemed almost the work of the devil. Would I quickly become an outcast?

I'd really appreciate any advice you can give me.

Thanks

Kate

I think you will feel you need to justify yourself constantly which might be wearing. I found it hard enough at NHS Parentcraft classes because I wanted an epidural! But the NCT is also there for breastfeeding help and postnatal teagroups (as Funnypeculiar says nobody will care then).

Why don't you contact your local group, talk to the NCT booking clerk and ask her to put you in touch with the teacher/s who are working in your area - there won't be many. You could then sound them out and see if you would feel comfortable in their class. It might also be worth considering the possibility of sharing your reasons for wanting a c-section with the teacher and asking her to protect that confidence within the group.

I think we've scared her away!

I have never come across anyone at any NCT related event having a negative attitude to c-sections.

Our NCT teacher was great she covered cs and all forms of pain relief in our classes. I'd skipped past the cs info in the books I had read (denial because they scare me!) until then and found it very helpful. Thanks to her I think I would've felt less freaked out if I had needed one. Our NCT teacher even encouraged us to consider a cs birth plan just in case we needed one.

Wow, so many great responses! I've only just logged in - was out last night, I kind of 'posted, shot and left', sorry bout that. Can't write much at the mo, but will come back later. Thanks everyone, I really appreciate you all taking the time to give me your thoughts.

Kate

I haven't had a 'bad' experience regarding C sec and NCT as such, but I did feel that I was 'set aside'. I had an emergency c sec for DS, and now I'm pregnant again I wanted to join NCT classes so I called them. I said that there would a fair chance that I would need a second C section (low lying placenta) and the local representative was:

1. patronising by telling me that the placenta might still move up - as if I didn't know that already
2. made me feel crap by insinuating that the midwives and hospital staff didn't do their job properly during my first birth (I think they've done everything they could to support a natural birth but due to a string of problems it just couldn't happen) - she put lots of doubts in my mind and wasn't helpful one bit.
3. offered me private classes (much more expensive) as opposed to group sessions to help me with preparing for a planned c section.

Hope this helps you decide! By the way, I met loads more mums in post natal groups - play groups and other activities than during the pre-natal support meetings.

Where in the country are you, Kate?

You certainly SHOULDN'T be made to feel in any way unwelcome or that a cs is second best. HOWEVER when i did my NCT classes, nearly all the time was spent on the physiology of vaginal birth, breathing techniques (loads of time on this actually, preparing you for labour and pushing the baby out). I think only one part of one class focused on cs. Why not save the money and use it for a really nice item of baby equipment, or even better, pay for some help in the days after the birth when you come home?

I work for the NCT as a volunteer, and to be perfectly honest, in my area (SW London) most people do the courses for the social aspect, ie the meeting up with local people who are having a baby in your area at the same time as you. You may or may not gel with some or all of them, but it is likely that in the immediate hazy aftermath of having a baby that you will relish the contact with local mums in the same situation as you. We are pro informed choice, although this can vary depending on the teacher. But the C section rate is nearly 25% in our local hospital, so C sections are covered more now than they were a few years ago. Also if you choose not to do the antenatal class, it is worth checking if there is a post natal class, as many areas don't do them. You could always ask the person that books the course if there is a teacher who is more sympathetic to C sections...

Me again

Wow, thanks so much everyone. You've certainly all given me a lot to think about. It's interesting how the groups all seem to be different in their approach, being less or more open to cs. Must say though I am a bit concerned about ending up in one of the groups where cs is really frowned on, and women are positively made to feel inferior for having them even when medically essential. I am in West London, but would rather not reveal exactly where in case someone from the branch is reading and susses me out in advance!

lulumama - I'd like one because I have a great fear of the trauma of birth, for both myself and the baby. I am very small with a narrow pelvis - in fact the same size and shape as my mother, who had a terrible birth with me and was left torn and incontinent. I am going private, and already know that my consultant is not against elective cs in principle, so hopefully it won't be too much of an issue. Haven't actually discussed it with him so far as it's too early. I haven't even had my nuchal scan yet, so this might all be moot anyway (after 5+ years of ttc and disaster after disaster I'm always expecting the worst to happen at every turn and am always amazed, whenever I'm scanned, to find that my bean is still alive) but I heard that the NCT courses get booked up so early that you have to put your name down really soon. Much sooner than I'd want. I'm sure just by doing so that I'm tempting fate to strike me down!

ProfYaffle - Interesting to hear your cs experience was more positive than you expected.

jdd0709 - That's a great idea about the breech thing. Maybe that's the get-out clause for me...

Funnypeculiar - That's exactly the reason why I'm so keen to go - the social network. And good point about how it won't be nearly so much of an issue when all the babies are there anyway.

MuminBrum - Good idea - thanks.

Blueberrypancake - I'm so sorry you've had such an awful experience. How incredibly undermining for you. This sort of attitude really puts me off.
Louloubelle - That is good advice, thanks. Great to have the insight of an NCT volunteer.

I hope I don't sound too much of a princess. I'm really not. I just feel like it's my body, and my choice. I'm pretty much decided that this is what I want, but I'll go along to the course with an open mind (or as open as I can ) and see what they have to say, keeping mum for the time-being. I just really don't want to miss out on the potential network of friends. Maybe I'll strike lucky and the group will be relatively relaxed about it.

Cheers everyone

Kate

Message withdrawn

Oh, I should have said I'm also NCT volunteer - and you woudn't have any problem with any of our teachers being judgemental, either ... but they might well try and make you less scared of a vaginal birth
Good luck

thanks for that ! i would suggest, IMHO, that you do not presume that you are physically the wrong shape for birth, even if you are the same shape as your mum !

the vast majority of women have a gynaecoid pelvis shape and tend to grow the size of baby they can carry and give birth to!

your consultant will no doubt assess your pelvis and the size of baby and if there is a disproportion ,then of course a c.s is the way to go. True cephalo-pelvic disproportion is rare, ie when the baby's head is simply to big to fit through the pelvis

if it turns out you can accomodate the baby, then the classes would be invaluable to help you overcome the fear of birth you have. which based on what you ahve been told by your mum, is a real fear ! i wonder if you would have this fear of birth if she had had a more positive experience giving birth to you ?

at the end of the day, if you are having a private birth, you can elect a c.s and fair play to you !

it might well be worth not making a decision until you are further along in the pregnancy and have an idea of the size of baby in relation to your pelvis

small, petite slender women can and do give birth vaginally ,without suffering terrible tearing ....

i am also involved with the NCT and am the caesarean and VBAC rep for our local branch !

hope that you get the answers and the birth you want

Message withdrawn

Good thought girafski

I think if I was you I would just go to the classes anyway and keep quiet - there is no need to say you have already made a choice - they don't interview you on the way in and make you swear you are going to try for a natural birth - just say you are going to take it as it comes - then you can listen to the discussion, see if it influences your choice, and if it doesn't just go ahead anyway - as others have said you would just need to say Oh i ended up having a ceserian - noone will care after the birth and all the precious pro natural first time mums (like I was!) will be too busy trying to cope with sleepless nights to be judgemental. I don't think you should feel you cant go to the class because of your choice which, after all, is yours to make and noone elses. Or say the baby is breech like I said before.

Good luck with your nuchal scan.

Sorry I can't resist saying this though - I am 4ft 11 and had an 8 lb 3 baby vaginally and it really wasn't that bad!

I think if I was you I would just go to the classes anyway and keep quiet - there is no need to say you have already made a choice - they don't interview you on the way in and make you swear you are going to try for a natural birth - just say you are going to take it as it comes - then you can listen to the discussion, see if it influences your choice, and if it doesn't just go ahead anyway - as others have said you would just need to say Oh i ended up having a ceserian - noone will care after the birth and all the precious pro natural first time mums (like I was!) will be too busy trying to cope with sleepless nights to be judgemental. I don't think you should feel you cant go to the class because of your choice which, after all, is yours to make and noone elses. Or say the baby is breech like I said before.

Good luck with your nuchal scan.

Sorry I can't resist saying this though - I am 4ft 11 and had an 8 lb 3 baby vaginally and it really wasn't that bad!

sorry dont know why it posted twice

Kate,

I'm running a one day antenatal course in West London on Saturday 12th May. We won't be doing any birth preparation - instead we'll be preparing for the emotional challenges of becoming a mother (perfectionism, guilt, relationships and much more). It might be a good way to meet other parents-to-be without having to get into birth issues. The people who came on my last one all said they felt much calmer and more positive about becoming a parent after the course.

The cost is normally £50 but I have a discount for MNers which reduces it to only £30, which includes lunch and a fabulous goodie bag. Other halves are very welcome - I encourage them to come along.

If you're interested, e-mail me at [email protected].

Patricia x

lulumama, giraffeski and jdd0709 you make some good points there. I've got a quite a long way to go yet, so I'm going to be giving this a lot of thought. As you suggest, there is no point in committing to anything anyway until I'm further along. And a phone call to the NCT organiser is something to think about, certainly. Hopefully I will get my head around all this a bit more as time goes on. It's pretty overwhelming having to think about all this. I never, ever thought I'd be in this situation - ie pg. This was going to be our last try at ART, and we were really only just going through the motions so we could look back and know we tried everything. Never in a million years expected to end up with a bun in the oven! Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm not even out of the first trimester yet

Jdd 0709, all I can say is 'Ouch'. Respect to you woman!

Patricia, I love the look of your website. Are you holding the same course later in the year? We're planning to be away in May, not sure exactly when yet though.

Love

Kate

Pattilou, wish I'd known about your courses before I had my LO! Is three years post-partum too late to come along - or would you consider running a version for parents of toddlers?!

Kate,

good luck with the rest of your pregnancy, and whatever you decide to do about NCT classes and c-sections.

I am not a medical expert, but I have read that generally the baby's size is dictated by the size of the mum, so baby should be able to fit through the pelvis. And i don't think tearing and incontinence are necessarily due to having a slender pelvis. I have a very roomy pelvis but still had tearing and incontinence and have asked for and am having a c-section second time round. So I completely understand your fears.

All the best.

Kate, I book classes in East London for the NCT. We ask people, before the class, on a form, if there are issues they want the teacher to know about - planning an elective CS definately falls into that category! I would put it in a note on the table I send to the teacher before the class (along with things like 'carrying twins', 'has OC, being induced on the 27th' or whatever), and then the teacher would know about the situation.

I do tell prospective attendees that the class is mostly about natural birth. But I don't dissuade people who are expecting a CS from attending.

(I too don't think shape of hips is much of a predictor. My mum had wide hips, and had three very easy labours. I am shaped exactly the same way, and neither of my sons ever came close to leaving by the normal exit, despite my, and my midwife's, best efforts. Perhaps this is down to me marrying someone stupidly tall with a giant head?)

My Mum had a terrible birth experience too, and although small she looks big compared to me.

With the help of one fantastic midwife who present from 7cm dilated, I gave birth in a much shorter time than my Mum, (7cm to birth was 3 hours 4 mins, my mums was something like 48 hours).

I am petite, one of those hated natural size 00's, and if I can do it I would say most women can.

If you are really too scared then go for your c-section, but I would get yourself well read up first on the pro's & cons. Most of my friends ended up having cs for one reason or another and I would say that I got over my birth much faster and found bfing after much, much easier, but at the end of the day it is up to you and that is what the NCT is all about, informed choice.