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Original poster

Pregnancy advice in France?

27 replies

aloha · 26/05/2004 19:06

Just putting this here in case you don't see it on the Media thread. Just desperate to know what the general advice to pg women is in France re cheese and wine (alcohol in general I suppose).

Can anyone help me?
Thanks!

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Original poster
aloha · 26/05/2004 19:29

Help! Need urgent advice!

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karen01 · 26/05/2004 21:20

aloha - sorry can't help just thought lewt you know youre thread wasn't ignored.

acnebride · 26/05/2004 21:34

sorry aloha not a clue - only thing i know is that my MIL told me a story about when she was at a conference for government microbiologists/health types and talked with a French rep about salmonella in eggs and the advice that pregnant women, elders etc should not eat lightly cooked eggs. French rep looked astounded and burst out laughing. So as far as my MIL knows raw egg is not off the list in France.

sweetkitty · 26/05/2004 21:42

Don't think the French bother about cheese the same way we do, they think we are slightly mad with our health warnings, not sure about alcohol as well. They are more concerned about toxoplasmosis think they recommend staying away from cats completely.

(Before I had fuzzy pregnancy brain I was a food microbiologist)!

madgirl · 26/05/2004 22:02

aloha, do you have any french- have you tried yahoo france for a search on guidelines? if you don't have any french i could surf a bit for you tomorrow?

morocco · 27/05/2004 00:42

from the little I remember they recommend cutting the rind off soft cheeses like brie and are very keen on avoiding toxoplasmosis so lots of advice on not eating raw meat etc
don't know about the alcohol side of things though sorry

hermykne · 27/05/2004 07:46

aloha my friend recently had a baby in france, living there years, and there was not the hype (i dont mean that disparingingly) about cheeses or wine that there is in the UK. the cheese thing she really wasnt aware of, and the wine she naturally cut back but not out. baby born 2 weeks early and a good healthy size. she lives in paris and went to a private maternity hospital with nuns!

mexico · 27/05/2004 08:42

Aloha are you just going on holiday to France, or living there? I am off on holiday in a couple of weeks, I wil just follow the same guidlines as here otherwise I think I would be paranoid. It is hard though, I was in France in April and I polished off a gorgeous piece of very pink leg of lamb before thinking 'OMG I am pregnant, I should not have eaten that!!!'. I felt bad for a couple of days, could not believe I did it. As it happens I got tested later for toxoplasmosis (my cat was infected during my last pregnancy and must have been in my notes) and I was negative. Amazing really considering the amount of rare meat, parma ham etc. that I eat when I am not PG.

Original poster
aloha · 27/05/2004 09:09

Hi, sorry, this is for a feature I'm doing about food safety in pregnancy - I did pay my Media sub to Mumsnet, as always (polishes halo!) but I think my heading wasn't very exciting and needed to make sure what I was writing (basically that lots of Frenchwomen aren't given advice re Brie and as many warnings as we are) was true.

I'm very grateful for your help and will post a link to the feature when I have finished.

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Original poster
aloha · 27/05/2004 09:10

I certainly didn't mean to make anyone think I was in distress - apologies if I did. 'Urgent' in this case meant 'help I have a horrible deadline'
Mumsnet is fantastic!

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Original poster
aloha · 27/05/2004 09:13

Hi Mexico, actually the reason you tested negative for toxo is because you eat lots of rare meat etc when not pregnant. Unlike listeria which you can get after any exposure (thought your immune system needs to be down or damaged for it to be a problem - ie as in pregnancy when your immune system is reduced), you become immune to toxo once you've had it once. The more cat litter you handle/raw meat you eat before you get pg, the more likely you are to be immune!

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mexico · 27/05/2004 10:20

Well actually, when I said negative, I didn't mean I don't have a current infection, I mean I didn't possess any antibodies whatsoever, so I have never been infected. Quite a feat I thought - maybe the infection rate in our lamb is not as high as they think.
I know all about deadlines and sympathise - good luck with the article and I look forward to seeing your link

bzhmum · 27/05/2004 14:14

HI, I've been in France throughout my pregnancy - am now 33 weeks.
The advice I was given was as follows:
1st GP visit, told to avoid cats, as was toxo-. And then told not to eat any raw vegetables - I said, what, not even salad? She said she would prefer me not to, as there is a chance I could catch toxo from not washing veg thoroughly. (Ihave eaten loads of salad throughout, by the way - just wash everything)
Then the obstetrician told me to avoid smoked ham, bloody steak, pate + saucisson (again, to avoid toxoplasmosis) and to keep hands hygienic. That's it
NO mention of cheese, or eggs, or alcohol (I think they may suppose that cutting alcohol is a commmon sense move and doesn't need saying, and also the French don't have the same drinking habiots as British women, like me! Having said that, most of the frenchies I know don't seem atall perturbed by a glass of wine with a meal while pregnant, seems totally acceptable in my experience)
The eggs thing is all down to edwina currie, isn't it?! don't think she's very well known over here, thank god

sweetkitty · 27/05/2004 19:02

This fascinates me how much it varies from country to country the risk from toxoplasmosis is very very small think you're more likely to get hit by lightening you have ot catch it in pregnancy and it to cause an infection then pass it onto the baby and then theres only a chance it will have adverse effects compared to eating an old runny bit of Brie which is much mre likely to contain Listeria. As someone else said you become immune to toxoplasmosis once you have had it Listeria is dangerous anytime. In saying that hasn't stopped me getting DP to clean out the litter trays every night for the past 6 months trying to convince him it's a risk when breast feeding too (don't think he's buying it though).

Not heard of smoked ham being avoided and eggs are fine as long as they are cooked well, most laying hens in this country are vaccinated against the most common Salmonella. IMO I think we have gone a bit overboard in this country with what you cannot eat in pregnancy.

highlander · 27/05/2004 23:20

could the French soft cheese attitude be down to the fact that they consume more, and thus the tunrover of cheese in the fridge is higher? If the turnover is higher then there's less chance of listeria getting a hold. In the UK, perhaps the cheese sits around in the fridge longer (both at home and in commercial premises) thus our risk is mayber higher?

Just a theory mind, hasn't stopped me in my vast consumption of all things cheesy

ggglimpopo · 28/05/2004 12:46

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sweetkitty · 28/05/2004 12:55

Wow I'm amazed at the oysters - oysters are filter feeders yes but they don't filter the toxins they accumulated viruses, bacteria and toxins in their guts and if they are eaten live there is no heat process to kill any of this off. We have to amke sure our oysters come from very clean water (no sewage etc) and have to have a warning statement displayed on them.

Don't know about the high turnaround of cheese though the French tend to leave theirs out of the fridge longer than we do and they also have longer shelf lives on them in general. I visit a lot of cheese factories in France assessing food safety and they are always amazed when I have to restrict the shelf life for Listeria concerns. Although in general they think us Brits are mad when it comes to food safety.

bzhmum · 28/05/2004 15:08

i am in Toulon - until sunday, cos I'm going back home for the birth.
call me a cynic, but I think that food producers' lobby has more than a little say in the health advice given - Bordeaux is near Arcachon, prime oyster producing territory, and the cheese-making/wine-growing lobby in France would have a blue fit if some health minister were to 'do an Edwina'.
Also, cheese + wine has been a part of the culture here for centuries.
If we listened to all the advice given , we wouldn't eat anything but bread and water.
i agree that they seem slightly over-obsessed with toxoplasmosis - but changing cat litter is risky - a friend of mine got it from weeding her garden (she has a cat which must have done a poo there) luckily she wasn't pregnant though

highlander · 28/05/2004 20:25

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat - no booze in France when preggers?!

My neighbour (neurotic) loudly tells anyone who'll listen that I'm poisoning my baby whenever she sees me with a glass of wine in my hand. I've been telling her if it's good enough for the French...

Original poster
aloha · 28/05/2004 21:03

Highlander, oooh, what an officious busybody! Tell her there is no evidence of harm up to 8 to ten units a week - that's what a dietician told me!

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highlander · 31/05/2004 03:08

oh that's only the half of it...... you should hear her when she gets going on running during pregnancy, women who lose weight whilst breast feeding, the cruelty of cloth nappies, and how crap our 3 door car is going to be for loading a baby. And her face when she found out I'm having a CS....

ggglimpopo · 31/05/2004 10:11

Message withdrawn

highlander · 31/05/2004 20:09

well, I'm not usually the sort of person that's backword in coming forward IYSWIM, but she just leaves me speechless! I kind of look on it now as entertainment - my sister insists on me repeating the conversations verbatim then pisses herself laughing

lostinparis · 04/06/2004 13:10

Hi - I'm living in Paris. My dr has told me that as I am toxo -ve (ie have no antibodies) I must not eat: unpasturised cheese, uncooked or undercooked red meat (not even red steak), no uncooked fruit or veg in restaurants (unless I peel the fruit myself), no other raw meat (+ no alcohol although that is nth to do with toxo). I can eat uncooked fruit and veg at home as long as I wash it all carefully myself/peel it. + no contact whatsoever with cats (if poss avoid going where cats live). When I queried whether this was overkill she agreed that probably yes it was however better safe than sorry as she had had two women in the last year who had got toxo while pregnant (one had cats at home). So as its only for a few months........

BIBIBOO · 04/06/2004 13:18

No real advice to add here ladies, just thought I'd mention that DH has picked up on the cat poo risk to baby, and spends ages at the living room window each night "guarding" our garden with a water pistol from the local cats...v amusing to see him taking it so seriously!