London folk- baby on board badges rant

[GirlFromMars1]

Is it just me or do you find most people will pretend not to see your badge? Seriously I wish I could time my morning sickness so I could do a fabulous projectile vomit over all the buggers who see it and then quickly look away to avoid giving up their seat! I'm sure people are much more gracious elsewhere. I've always offered up my seat in the past when I've seen pregnant women. It just makes me really angry.

I always wore the badge, more as a clarifying sign for 'don't bump me on the escalators' purposes, but virtually never had to stand or ask for a seat - admittedly I lived in Zone 2, so my commute was a fairly quick hop, and I can imagine that trains in from the commuter belt may be a whole different kettle of fish. (Interestingly, there never seems to be any common ground on who is most likely to offer a seat - my vague recollection was that it was probably most likely to be a youngish man, but other people seem to think the opposite, that they're least likely.)

BUT I do think that attitudes to the Baby on Board badges tap into a certain set of anxieties/prejudices/assumptions held by women in this country about pregnancy, public space and assertiveness. Look at this thread. There are women mocking a perceived 'special snowflake' status they feel the badges mark, and other women saying that's precisely why they don't wear them, and some women saying they are embarrassed to ask for a seat and that's why they wear the badge, so they don't have to speak up, and then getting cross because a seat isn't offered when they feel it should be, and still others saying that's passive-aggressive to expect people to notice a badge, and far politer to ask for a seat.

I don't think it's a case of asking an individual - a general cursory request aimed at a group of seats usually does the trick - I agree I wouldn't like to single a person out.

I agree, if someone is going to ignore a bump they are going to ignore a badge too.

I've worn mine since early pregnancy as that's when I've felt truly rubbish, long before I had a bump. Plus I'm very short and with a coat on, you can't see the bump.

I'd ask politely if someone could move if I needed a seat, and didn't expect the badge to automatically give me a seat. Personally, I liked wearing it less to get a seat and more to try and not get jostled so much (Northern Line in the rush hour, lovely...)

But like darth says, if you ask for a seat then you are being rude because you don't know if the person in the priority seat has a hidden disability; if you wear a badge, you're being passive-aggressive. The badge was designed to try and make some peoples commute just a little bit easier, but apparently that is the wrong thing to do.

It's not rude to ask for a priority seat if you're pregnant, and it's not rude if the person in that seat says, Actually, sorry, I need the seat. There are other seats.

I like the badges.

I realise that asking in a straightforward way is sensible BUT a lot of people think that is rude and won't do it.

Mn is fascinating in that it always reveals the chasms that exist in interpretations of cultural behaviour: some people would find not asking extremely rude.

Hope you have a good pregnancy, am easy birth and enjoy parenthood, OP.

I agree, if someone is going to ignore a bump they are going to ignore a badge too.

I don't agree. Mine is enormous but I'm very short and if I'm wearing my winter coat and a big scarf it really isn't completely obvious. Whereas the badge is obvious even from a distance - I always spot them a mile off.

I don't think "not seeing" is much of an excuse really, if I'm sitting down (not even just in a priority seat, but anyway), I take a look around me every stop to see if anyone has got on who might need the seat more than I do. Admittedly on the tube you can be squashed into a corner but I tend to wait a few trains until I can get on one where I can stand in the middle. If I am only going a couple of stops and I get on at the side and it's really squashed, the badge is useful in that people who would usually try and squeeze on tend to move to another carriage as they don't want to squish you!

You are pregnant long before you have a visible bump. Why do people forget this? Also, bump doesn't equal difficult pregnancy, you can feel like shit long before your baby reaches the stage where it's visible.

I think they are awful, never wore one, travelled at rush hour everyday. People always offered me a seat if I needed one.

People always offered me a seat if I needed one.

Oh well, obviously that's representative of everyone's experiences then.

People always offered me a seat if I needed one.

How nice for you. I'd have loved it if that was the case. However, cramming on to a heaving rush hour Tube where you're lucky if you have got on the bloody carriage and you are rammed up against the door, it's quite hard to ask for a seat when there are a dozen equally squashed together people between you and the seats and you wouldn't be able to move towards the seats anyway even if someone did offer you one.

Which is where the BOB badge really helped, simply when queueing for the train. People used to let me get on first so I could try and either get a seat or at least get a space where I wasn't so squashed.

Completely agree with darth - pregnant women just can't win in this situation (and in plenty of other situations for that matter). If we ask for a seat we're being confrontational and might be turfing someone out of a seat when they have a real need for it; if we don't ask then we shouldn't expect people to offer and it's our own fault if we have to stand while feeling unwell because of it. If we wear a badge then we're expecting special treatment; if we don't wear a badge then it's our own fault if people can't tell if we're pregnant or just bigger than average.

I also find it frustrating that all the pressure is on the individual woman to ask (or not ask) for a seat. I don't think it's unreasonable for there to be an social expectation that people who are able to stand should offer a seat to a pregnant woman (or an elderly person, disabled person, or anyone else who's visibly less able to stand). Why do we put all the pressure on individual pregnant women to stand up for themselves, instead of expecting people in general to have a slightly nicer and more considerate attitude towards others?

pregnant women just can't win in this situation (and in plenty of other situations for that matter). If we ask for a seat we're being confrontational and might be turfing someone out of a seat when they have a real need for it; if we don't ask then we shouldn't expect people to offer and it's our own fault if we have to stand while feeling unwell because of it. If we wear a badge then we're expecting special treatment; if we don't wear a badge then it's our own fault if people can't tell if we're pregnant or just bigger than average.

Yes, absolutely, Knits, but it's other women who are saying these things, not some faceless representatives of the patriarchy - just look at this thread.

I was lucky and had a very easy first tri with no sickness, just a bit tired, so I didn't bother with a badge until after my first scan. Then I stuck it onto my bag so that it was more at eye level for people sitting down (and so it wasn't so obvious generally, because I didn't really feel like pronouncing it to all and sundry and being treated like a walking incubator).

I almost always got offered a seat immediately, and on the odd occasion that I didn't I just asked. Honestly, if you're not confident enough to ask someone politely if you can have their seat, you really need to put your big girl pants on pronto. Yes, you'll meet the occasional arsehole who thinks their hangover trumps your need, or someone who has MS and who really needs a seat, but I'd be amazed if you ever met an entire carriage-full. Most people are just absorbed in their own little worlds or a bit thoughtless.

Any Londoner with half a brain knows that sitting in the priority seat is a mugs game, always make for the middle seats, much less chance of having to give it up.

I don't look at people in the tube. If you need a seat then just ask, it's not rocket science.

Who has given people the idea that asking for a seat is confrontational? Priority seats are specified as being for those who are less able to stand. If that's you, you ask for one if you aren't offered.
Some people genuinely don't notice if someone else needs their seat; I used to fall asleep on the tube home in the evenings so I wouldn't have spotted anyone!

I always headed for the first or last carriages as generally they are less packed so people can actually see a bump or a badge to start with. Particularly in the winter when you are wearing a coat but for some people you could turn up in a "Baby on Board" sandwich board and they'd still manage to avoid clocking it.

Then always stand in the middle of the seats, not near the doors unless yours is the next stop. It's unusual not to be offered a seat straight away then.

My condition means I am sometimes physically unable to speak.

Seriously, if you're happy to/able to ask then fine, but why have such a problem with those who can't and/or don't? If you don't look around you on the tube to have some awareness of your surroundings then sorry but you're a selfish arse.

Yes, absolutely, Knits, but it's other women who are saying these things, not some faceless representatives of the patriarchy - just look at this thread.

Yes, brainwashed women who have absorbed the messages that women are fucked no matter what they do, and therefore get defensive when women raise their experiences as a problem.

"WELL, if you just DID X you'd get Y."

I still don't see that as confrontational, goodnight, though obviously if you aren't visibly pregnant and aren't wearing a BOB badge, you would likely have to ask rather than be offered. I understand that there might be a risk of confrontation, if you are unlucky enough to be asking someone who is an arse.

Yes, brainwashed women

I am not "brainwashed' thank you!

I am partially disabled. There are no badges for me. If I need a seat I have to ask. I have no choice.

Some people don't see the badges. They are small and on a packed tube you don't see them. It isn't always a case of people ignoring it, sometimes they can't actually be seen!

Thanks for all the opinions. Maybe I'm just being a tad sensitive...

Maybe what I need to do is make a Pearly Queen inspired outfit covered head to toe in BOB badges

I am partially disabled. There are no badges for me. If I need a seat I have to ask. I have no choice.

But we're not talking about disabled people, we're talking about pregnant women. Who do have a badge. Who are being told they shouldn't wear them as it's "passive aggressive".

creature it's been deemed as confrontational because the woman might be asking someone in greater need, ie hidden disability. She's just pregnant, after all, not ill, she should STFU.

Unfortunately it's really not feasible to check every single passenger at every single stop to check whether they have a small 'baby on board' badge pinned to their coat.

If you really do genuinely need the seat, then the slight awkwardness of asking for it will far outweigh the discomfort of having to stand. I've never, ever seen someone refuse to give up their seat when asked, and if they did, I'm 99% sure someone else in the carriage who is more able to stand would offer their seat instead.

If you really can't stomach having to ask, then maybe time your journey so you're travelling during quieter periods (before 7am is usually pretty quiet) or travel back on yourself to board the train a few stops earlier where the trains are emptier.