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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Original poster

Anyone else told by MW that the ruling is now no alcohol in pregnancy?

157 replies

incy · 04/12/2006 14:15

At my booking in appointment my MW told me the guidelines on alcohol in pregnancy had changed (although still to be updated) and that no alcohol at all should be consumed. Didn't drink at all last time so not a huge concern but wondered if anyone else was told this ?

OP posts:
welliemum · 05/12/2006 21:38

I hope there will be better evidence in the future - I'm an optimist!

There's obviously never going to be a randomised controlled trial, but I would hope that future research would clarify a) the effects of alcohol on the foetus at the time of drinking, b) how much alcohol must be taken before any effect persists after the alcohol has left the mother's bloodstream, c) and how you can relate amount of alcohol to effect on foetus in an individual.

I think all that is quite possible - just not at the moment.

naughtymummy · 05/12/2006 21:44

I'm with you Welliemum and i hope that, the. evidence says that the previous advice eg 1-2 units 1-2 a week is completely safe and has no effect,i really enjoyed my wine in the 2nd half of my pregnancy I also completely agree with the Italian cabbies don't waste your units on cheap booze

BrummieOnTheRun · 05/12/2006 22:15

Well surely they could do SOME form of study into the effects if they took a large enough sample size and everyone in that sample was honest about the amount they drank. But if they continue to stigmatise it then that can never happen.

I saw a post on this site from a media org. It asked "if you drank in pregnancy and feel it damaged your child call xxxxx". Not "did you drink in pregnancy, call xxxx." then look to see if there was any correlation between those that did / didn't and any ill-effects. Set up to scaremonger.

BrummieOnTheRun · 05/12/2006 22:17

just re-read naughtymummy's post! I also have a 'quality not quantity' policy!

welliemum · 05/12/2006 22:25

I think the trouble with all of these studies to date is that everyone underestimates the amount they drink, and I imagine in pregnancy even more so.

People with a real alcohol problem (ie the heaviest drinkers) are often in denial about how much they truly drink, and their estimates are even more inaccurate.

So it's hard to get a handle on this if the studies depend on people self reporting.

welliemum · 05/12/2006 22:26

Yes, agree about quality vs quantity!

naughtymummy · 05/12/2006 22:32

Yes, could do that study- however follow up rates for longitudinal studies are relatively poor and get worse the longer the study runs. The effects that would be looked for are subtle -would need a very large cohort (guessing 100-200 at least).

i think the earlier article mentioned ADHD this is not normally diagnosed until child is school age- so 6 years at least from pregnancy- i agree this information would be very valuable- but difficult and expensive to collect.

bumperlicious · 05/12/2006 22:35

I don't think, as some people have insinuated, that struggling to go without a few glasses of red wine for 9 months make you an alcoholic, I just really like the taste of red wine (I keep sniffing people's glasses now that I don't feel so sick!), just like I am struggling going for 9 months without dippy eggs!

naughtymummy · 05/12/2006 22:35

Agree Welliemum am going to logoff now to feed dd before they change the drinking/breastfeeding advice- now if there is an area with no evidence......

welliemum · 05/12/2006 22:44

Yes, my drinking method whilst pregnant is to take a sip of DH's wine and roll it round and round and round my mouth until it's pretty much evaporated.... that way, I get the maximum taste per sip!

Agree with naughtymummy, you'd have to follow up the children for a long time to spot problems and that could be tricky.

Kabsy · 05/12/2006 22:48

Blossomhill, Binkacat... not referring to any of my fellow MNs here as do gooders. Twelve days was right I was not making this personal, am well known for putting my size 9s in first and making sweeping statements! Sorry. I believe that everyone should do what feels right for them, their pregnancy and their life etc.. of course I suppose I forget that there are people that (and not just in this issue) are not able to take advice and know where to sensibly draw the line.

I like many others on here like a glass of wine with my meal, etc as I like the taste. I have a family and circle to friends that are much the same and do find it slightly testing watching other people drinking, just as I would if I were on a strict diet and everyone was stuffing sticky toffee pudding and clotted cream! But I know that are also plenty of other people the opposite scale that chose not to drink and still enjoy themselves... we are all different. For me if medical advice said no chocolate I would be fine (and i know a lot of women wouldn't), as I am not that bothered about chocolate give me a glass of wine any day!

It does seem that there is always something else we shouldn't eat/do/use etc in pregnancy that it restricts our freedom and I suppose thats what I rebel against.

Im with wellie research and not conflicting advice every few months would go a long way....

Original poster
incy · 06/12/2006 07:26

The reason I asked the original question was because I have received conflicting advice - ie GP said ok to drink in moderation after 12 weeks yet midwife said no alcohol whatsoever throughout pregnancy. Personally I would like all medical professionals so be giving the same advice (esp within the same hospital !). Obviously what people choose to do with the advice is up to each individual - I just think some consistency would be appreciated.

Also I am still confused as to why, if you go private at the Portland it is 6 units of alcohol pw plus a drink a night in the 3rd trimester !!!

OP posts:
Pruni · 06/12/2006 07:54

Message withdrawn

BahHunkBug · 06/12/2006 10:03

Ah, well, double nothing is still nothing [smug]

PMSL!

(This name seems to have brought out the worst in me - sorry!)

LazycowLyinginaManger · 06/12/2006 10:04

Problem is Pruni - not everyone actally underestimates what they drink. I white lie about how much I eat and exercise but certainly not about how much I drink as I drink so little.

Maybe I should double what I say I drink to my GP so that he has an accurate picture of what I actually drink

vickiyumyum · 06/12/2006 10:28

our local guidelines are for no drinking at all and this is fairly recent change, when i started work 3.5 yrs ago it was 1-2 units no more than 1-2 x a week.

i have seen babie born with fetal alcohol syndrome and its not very nice in the same way as a baby withdrawing from heroin or crack isn't nice. the baby that i saw his mum said she had 3 0r 4 glasses of wine a week she had no more than one bottle of wine a week and her baby was born with fas, whereas i've seen a mum who is an alcoholic have babies born without fas! seem unfair to me, but as someone else has said peoples bodies metabolise alchol in different ways and this is bound to have an effect.

also drinking in pregnancy may not cause fas immediatley or any other problems that are appreant soon after birth, but it has been attributed to learning difficulties and behaioural problems in later life, although this is american research which i do tend to take with a pinch of salt as they are keen to blame things like behaviour problems on a cause and not just a 'naughty' child/teenager

firststar · 06/12/2006 12:50

Message withdrawn

CurrantBun · 06/12/2006 12:56

In the absence of any concrete, medically-proven guidelines the best we can do is to make as informed a decision as possible based on the information available. Whether or not you decide to drink during pregnancy, and how much, basically boils down to how comfortable you feel about doing so.

If you want to have a few drinks, there is really no hard evidence to suggest that a couple of units a couple of times a week is going to cause any harm. If that's a chance you're not willing to take, then hats off to you for managing to abstain for 9 months. No medical journal worth its salt would give any credence to the results of a trial with a sample size of only 40.

Personally, I fall into the "everything in moderation" camp. I've avoided pates and smelly cheeses but other than that I've occasionally eaten foods on the "forbidden" list. I didn't drink any alcohol during the first trimester (once I'd found out I was pregnant - the baby was conceived in alcohol and the first three weeks of its life coincided with World Cup matches in the pub with appropriate accompaniment!) but since then I've had a small glass of wine on occasion - probably averaging one glass every couple of weeks or so.

There's no way I'm not having a glass of wine with my Christmas dinner!!

Anglaise1 · 06/12/2006 13:35

I drank a little wine throughout my first pregnancy (as did all my friends) and DD is fine, but this time round I don't like the taste of alcohol at all and in fact have become allergic to it - just one glass of wine and I can't stop sneezing, which isn't pleasant especially as my pelvic floor muscles aren't working as they should. I hope the allergy only lasts as long as the pregnancy, I couldn't bear never to drink wine again!

mrspf · 06/12/2006 14:21

My GP said 1-2 units a week is OK throughout pregnancy and my midwife said the same, but that she expected soon for the guidance to be no alcohol at all.

In my last pregnancy I started to drink the odd drink in the 3rd trimester, and was really anxious about the amount I had drunk in the early weeks before I knew I was pregnant. I was on holiday/honeymoon and probably had 10 units a day for nearly 2 weeks! DD turned out OK (I think!)

I therefore think if you're the type to worry about the risks of drinking (or soft cheese etc) on the baby, then best not to have any at all.

calendula · 07/12/2006 01:11

I live in Norway. Here the guidelines have been no alcohol whatsoever during pregnancy for quite a number of years.

There is pretty heavy campaigning here to focus on the dangers of FAS which can occur as a result of just a couple of drinks if the timing is right(wrong!)

There is more and more serious evidence that a number of the learning difficulties diagnosed in schools are in fact a result of FAS. This is a very touchy subject, since doctors are basically saying to mothers that they've caused their children's learning diffuculties.

I wouldn't take the risk - 9 months is not a long time to do without alcohol!

welliemum · 07/12/2006 01:22

here's a nice discussion in the BMJ. The final para has a good summary.

It does seem sensible not to drink at all for the moment; my only quibble is that this "minimise the risk" advice is being touted as a guideline, when it's just opinion. Informed opinion, but opinion nevertheless.

skyedog · 07/12/2006 16:28

Was sick every day with my first baby, and then got terrible heartburn at the end, built in will power not to drink. There was a documentary recently on alcohol in pregnancy, and there were people out on the piss every night, where did they get the energy?
On the cheese front, it isn't so much the pasturisation that counts, soft mould ripened, or blue cheeses are a risk even if pasturised, whereas hard unpasturised cheeses are OK. It is a food poisoning risk like the pate. Just pregnant again, and living on sushi surely the omega thingys in fish outweigh the tiny risk?

sue1545 · 07/12/2006 19:38

As the mum of a nearly 3 yr old boy with fetal alcohol syndrome that we have fostered since he was 7 weeks old( he wasn't well enough to leave hospital till then) whom we are now adopting. Please do not drink while you are pregnant,this is the only sort of brain damage that can be simply avoided. He is adorable but will suffer from the effects for the rest of his life. If you have any doubts please go to www.nofas.org

cholas · 07/12/2006 21:27

I´m a big woman but know that one sip of wine may just go straight to my head. Has this happened to you? Then you can imagine the same sip may have an effect on a foetus.
To me this is a common sense issue. Alcohol is a drug and it is full of toxins. Does anyone want to knowingly poison their baby? Does it matter what current health guidelines are or is it just safer to go cold turkey for the duration of the pregnancy? I think so, so shoot me.

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