Different religion? WWYD?

[Steph1502]

This is an issue that I'm really starting to worry about and I sincerely hope any readers of ANY faith don't get offended by this. I have 3 DDs to my ex husband and am now expecting DC4 with my new partner. None of my family were ever christened as my grand parents decided that they didn't want to impose any faith into their kids after their families disowning them due to my Granda being Protestant and my gran being Catholic. I've always been very open about my own beliefs and very respectful of others. However, my new partner was raised Catholic and his 2 children with his ex wife were both baptised and went to catholic schools (they are older now and both in college/employment). The thing is, I don't want my children raised in the catholic faith. It's not what I believe in and I disagree with some of its principles (again, no disrespect to anyone of the Catholic faith it's just my opinion) plus my kids all go to a non denomination school so I wouldn't want this little one going to a different school than his/her big sisters. But, my OH is adamant he wants his child raised in the Catholic faith and has been quite demanding regarding this. Now, if he was a devout practising member of a chapel then I'd maybe take more consideration of this but... In the whole 2.5 years we have been together he's attended chapel once and it was for a funeral. He doesn't go to confession and, to be honest, his lifestyle doesn't exactly match the Catholic way. I genuinely don't want to upset him or his family but I definitely am dead against it. And also, I don't want to create a divide between my girls and their new brother/sister. Any advice would be greatly appreciated Tia xx

missmilla I agree, I'd like my kids to make their own decisions when they are old enough to do so. But if my OH was a very religious person and was practicing his faith and attended mass etc then I would definitely reconsider. But the plain fact of the matter is... He doesn't lol.

diamond I understand what you're saying. Just because he doesn't practice, he's still a catholic, always will be. But why impose it onto a child when he doesn't follow it himself? That's where I'm having the biggest issue.

authoress yes definitely. That's what I mean though by the fact this was a non issue before TTC. I knew he was Catholic but his total non-committal to his faith led me to believe he wasn't bothered. Silly me eh? Lol

Not silly at all :) it's pretty normal to assume that someone who never goes to church and doesn't practise religion isn't very religious! That's logical!

Not silly at all OP! I was engaged to a Muslim man when I was younger. It didn't work out for various reasons but we discussed this kind of thing as we both knew it was potentially an issue if we had kids. If you're with someone that's shown no signs of being religious then it's reasonable to assume they're not.
I still think all the organising of a baptism e.g. setting up meeting with priest, booking a slot, organising food / drink for after might put him off! It's a lot of work, especially when you're in the chaotic new baby phase

I would not rely on the lack of it not being done, if the family are devout Catholics they may well help with the organising of it all. !

If you don't want it done, then you need to actively fight it. If you are not fussed then it is not an issue. But it does bring up the Catholic school issue too. I think putting your head in the sand about it may just delay further conflict.

Its not true that you have to be a churchgoer to get your child into a catholic school. Entirely depends on the area. It also isn't true that both parents have to promise to raise the child catholic in order to be baptized. I've been to christenings where the dad wasn't even there.

hi Steph I am hoping to maybe try and explain a little of your dp thoughts. also I don't know if you are from Ireland as catholic marrying protestant was a huge issue there and religion still runs deep.

as a catholic myself, I lived with my husband before marriage, I had sex before marriage and I do not attend mass very often at all. although I do have a very strong faith in god. we are all sinners and I made those sins against the churches teachings and I would still do it again today. what we need to remember is that a lot of the rules I'm catholic church that ppl disagree with are man made rules made by first popes when people were running amuck in their eyes and they wanted to put some measures in place. I do not agree with all their rules and would strongly advocate for some to be brought into 21st century. there is lots of recent horrible stories of abuse - I still cry thinking of film Philomena - but that fact is as a monster the catholic church is a great place to hide especially in days when if u didn't marry you were shame on your family.

however all reasons aside from this as Catholics we are taught from a young age that we are born with sin as human beings - as Adam and eve were- to be absconded from this sin we have go be baptised in Jesus name. if a baby is sick or dying anyone can baptise a child however ideally its through the Church. old beliefs as in my grandparents generation it was believed if you were not baptised you didn't get to heaven if you died. so babies were all baptised quickly after birth. however I don't think many people believe this any more. I don't think I for one would want to be part of the god that banished babies from heaven.
however I would still want my kids baptised. I would want to do the best for them and making that connection with god is how as a catholic we are best able to spiritual do that. if they choose not to follow this path when older that is fine with me but as a parent I feel it is my duty to be able to invite them into gods life - give them teachings on gods life and let them find out for themselves. If you can imagine saying well DC may not want go know about cooking (sri bad example but late at nite) - I'll let them decide when they are older if they want to know. how do they know they don't love cooking unless it's introduced. I'n regards to do being a hypocrite as said by some people - if you smoke you still tell your children not to smoke. because you want the best for them. just because dp don't go to church he wants the best for your kid and this is what he believes is best for them.

I think what makes it difficult is you are a non believer and you are both coming from different angles - therefore I think you need a discussion. as you do have very valid points in kids going to same school. to think of some things I would maybe compromise on is school.
I would insist on baptism as it is sacrament and is viewed so important. however I would agree to a non catholic school as long as I could take the kid to mass. what you will prob find is dp will get sick of going to mass as he will have to take them and it will come to a natural end. then by holy communion DC will be old enough go engage I'm conversation if they want go take part.

as for unbaptising - I can't understand y you would want to do that - if you didn't believe then it doesn't mean anything and your undoing something that didn't happen I'm your eyes...? sorry can't write it sensibly as I can't get my head around that...

in relation to this op - you don't believe in baptism but dp does. therefore would it be possible for you to compromise on this area - laugh to yourself what a lot of cods wallop but dp will be able to sleep knowing he has done his part in that catholic guilt we hear about in reality DC will prob not give a second thought to it when older. you could !maybe use it as bargaining tool for school.....

and for passing down mothers side - you are getting confused over your religions - that's the Jewish religion

sorry for the essay - just trying to give a balanced view

Your partner's devoutness is irrelevant. As people have mentioned, for many religion is cultural. Throwing in his face that he's not living like a Catholic isn't going to accomplish anything. For all you know, the reason he's pushing for the baptism and Catholic school is a way of making up for how he's been living.

If I were you I'd suggest that he arrange a meeting with a local priest so you can discuss the situation. From what I know of Catholicism, the priest is unlikely to baptize a child whose Catholic parent does not attend mass and whose non-Catholic parent has no intention of raising the child in the faith. Additionally if your partner was married in the church and has not had an annulment, he may not even be eligible to take Communion let alone have his new child baptized. It might also be helpful to get the priest to confirm that a CofE baptism is recognized as valid by the Catholic church. CofE will have far fewer requirements and may be a fair compromise for the both of you.

There is no point worrying about the school issue now because if the child isn't baptized for the reasons listed, they will have less of a chance to get into the school if it's competitive.

Maybe agree you will teach children about all faiths and religion, and to respect what others are. Being a good person is better than attending church once a week (not saying you cant do both). Read him story of the good Samaritan

I think your OH needs to either:

1. go to church, practise his religion and be a Catholic

Or,

2. shut the f up!

I had a ten year relationship with a "catholic" man. He wasn't a good Catholic boy - he rarely went to church just for his nieces and nephews holy communions, weddings, funerals, Christmas and Easter - that's it. In ten years I went to church with him around 5 times which shows how often he attended.

When things were good between us (not often as he was an alcoholic and abusive but that's a whole other issue) we did talk about kids. One of the many reasons that put me off from having children with him was that he said he felt strongly that they should be brought up Catholic, go to Catholic school etc. I felt it was wrong and hypocritical to even get married in a church if we didn't attend (we never married), let alone bringing up children in a faith that their mother didn't believe in and their father no longer participated in (he only went when it was important to his mother - for her not for him). I feel it's a mockery - whilst I don't believe in organised religion myself, I have enough respect for those who do not to pretend I believe something that I don't just for my own ends.

If you feel strongly that it's not right for your LO then put your foot down.

As others have suggested, also, if he won't budge on it then tell him he must organize it and pay for it himself. Unless he loves doing thiat sort of thing, he'll freak out and inertia will kick in!

But, try to get him to understand your point of view first (before "tricking" him). I'm not yet a mum (23 weeks into first pg) but from what I understand, parenting is about pulling together and putting up a United front. Compromise if you feel you can - maybe the baby could be baptised but not go to Catholic school? If it's completely unacceptable to you (as the thought was for me) then stick to your guns. There is no right and wrong here, just what you feel comfortable with.

Good luck, and congratulations on your pregnancy!

Which school is closer to you the Catholic or the school your other children go? When you fill out the application for a school place put your choice 1st his choice 2nd (if it's easier tell him you've done it the other way round ). Let the authority decide for you

dh and I are both catholic, and are raising our son (and will be raising the new baby) catholic. By raising them catholic, I mean that we got him baptised, we take him to church almost every weekend, we talk about our faith during the week, try and live our faith, and will be sending him to a catholic school to support this.

I know that there are cultural issues for some people, but I'm sorry, faith is an important issue and one where your partner needs to stand up for his own beliefs. Either he believes in the catholic faith, in which case he takes his new child to church, teaches them about the faith, gets them baptised and actually brings them up in the faith, or he decides that he doesn't believe in it and leaves it alone.

You can't expect a church to be there to baptise/marry/bury you and your kids, if you don't support the church by your attendance, effort, faith and donations.

and yes, as a pp said, a baptism is a baptism regardless of whether it's carried out in the CofE church or Catholic Church, it's recognised as valid by either (although a Catholic school may not be content with a CofE baptism, I don't know about that).

Very true newbian. A number of posters in this thread seem not to understand that cultural Catholicism is a thing. To that end, it's not really about imposing something. If he's that culturally Catholic, any child he has is going to imbibe at least some of it.

With that said OP, you're perfectly within your rights not to want your child baptised. You're not going to be able to prevent a child having some connection to half it's heritage, but your desire for a child not to receive a sacrament is every bit as valid as the father's desire otherwise. I do think maybe the best thing is to try and come up with a compromise option, though, because if either of you gets entirely your own way, there's a risk that the child will feel different to one side of the family. I wonder about maybe having a baptism but no faith school? Or some other third way? Is your baby likely to see much of DPs older ones, as they're older and working?

Knitting - I totally agree with you. Religion should be all or nothing.

cultural catholicism comes after religion. It isnt a cultural promise you make when you baptise a child, its a solemn declaration of religious intent.
If you take a child to the church and tell the priest that you dont attend church, dont follow the rules of the religion and dont intend to raise your child to do these things either, they wont give you a cultural baptism.

Its you that doesnt get it.

Madreloco I'm afraid it is not for you to decide whether those who are participating in Catholic ceremonies are doing so because they truly believe them and intend them as a solemn statement of religious intent, or because they wish to continue following the practices of their culture and the rites of their community. The latter is clearly a thing, regardless of whether you think it ought to be or not. You are either aware of this fact, or you have misunderstood something somewhere along the line.

birch it was me that looked into unbaptising, well not quite that but leaving the church. It's very difficult to do.
Reasons could be that when someone is older they want to join another denomination or religion and some of these require you to renounce your original faith. Another reason is that the number of e.g. Catholics is used for policy. They take this from baptism records not active churchgoers. A third reason is if you live abroad, I think it is Germany you pay tax out of your pay to the church which is fine if you believe but I wouldn't want to pay just because I was baptised as a baby.
If the OPs DC is happy being a Catholic when they're older it's not a big deal. I just thought I'd point out it's very difficult to leave as many don't realise this and think it's just a ceremony

no, its for the church to decide. and its usually totallt obvious. Someone who has actual solemn intent actually does the things they say they will do, for example.

that has no bearing whatsoever on the issue here though.

Surely in Germany you can't opt in and out of church tax though?

I was baptised and it doesn't affect my life in the slightest, I can't think why I would bother to try and cancel it. If you're not religious it's meaningless.

Nope madreloco it's not for the church to decide whether the parents making vows at a christening are doing it for religious or cultural reasons. The only people making that call are the parents. The church can decide whether or not to permit those who aren't doing it for religious reasons, but that's an entirely different thing. It's also clearly a choice a lot of priests are not making.

It also has a huge bearing on the issue here, because DP is clearly not a person who would be doing it for religious reasons and OP said in her initial post that she has an issue with this.

Diamond yes you can but you have to excommunicate and not use the church for weddings, baptism,funeral etc. Many European countries have this tax, in some it's as high as 9%. Anyway, not an issue for the OP assuming their kids stay here. Just explaining to whoever asked why I looked into doing it

Frankly, the load of superstitious claptrap about 'Catholic guilt' and 'unbaptised babies being sinful and potentially damned' that birchygoo comes out with further up the thread is what made my husband and I (both raised in devout Catholic households) decide not to baptise our son. Well, as well as not signing up a beautiful, innocent baby to an organisation run by celibate misogynists with a fairly significant sideline in the abuse of women and children. and some of whose bishops are currently urging a 'no' vote on the grounds of nothing but bigotry in the Irish same-sex marriage referendum.

I assume from what you say, Steph, that your DP is a cultural Catholic who has semi-automatically had all his children baptised, not out of any sense of actual religious faith, but simply because 'that's just what you do'. (See recent thread on the discriminatory mess that is Catholic-controlled Irish education, in part because over 90% of the Irish population still semi-automatically baptise their children, despite not practising.)

I would call him on his lazy assumptions, point out that this is not 'just what you do' from your point of view, and that he is in fact signing up your baby to a monstrously corrupt organisation - it's not a 'neutral', trivial thing as far as you are concerned.

you clearly have no concept of religion works. Or the Catholic church. Or life.

Egged this is the point I disagree on "I would call him on his lazy assumptions."

It would be FAR more effective for OP to make the DP set up a meeting with a priest himself and have a conversation with the three of them.

I don't think there's a priest on Earth who would hear the unmarried partner of a lapsed Catholic say she has no intention of raising a Catholic child and proceed with a baptism - especially since the Catholic person in question is divorced!

If her DP can't even be bothered to set up the meeting (a strong possibility I suspect) then the issue will be dropped.