Fetal heart Doppler ????

[lj123]

I am currently 6weeks 5 days with my 5th pregnancy, will be first baby!
I had an early scan new yrs eve and it revealed my pea with a strong heartbeat of 140.
I am considering getting a Doppler for at home, has anyone got one or tried one etc, what's your feedback??

Just another thought, as well, depending on how often you plan on using the doppler - for baby it's about the same level of noise as an express train going past, which can't be that pleasant, either.

When the midwife checked for the heartbeat last week baby kept on turning away and she had to try 3-4 times until it was staying still, it clearly wasn't enjoying the noise and/or the pressure. (or it was playing tag, for all I know...)

Yes, you can say whatever you like, but 'feeling' something is unsafe is not very helpful. If you have science-based evidence that they are unsafe that's different. If you think that over-reliance on them is not advisable then just say that, just don't tell pregnant women that using an approved piece of equipment is inherently unsafe.

beewitched the fetus will move away from noises, pressure and light because it's instinctive, not because they are upset by it.

Please don't think that I'm attacking anyone here, I just feel very strongly about being able to make decisions based on facts, not feelings.

Angelina - and the trained medical experts on this thread are giving the facts to enable you and others to make those informed decisions. You are acting on feelings; you 'feel' that you are able to tell the difference just as well as a trained midwife, when people on this thread have told you the fact that you can't be sure of it. You are acting on feelings, they are giving the facts.

There haven't been any facts presented though, just opinions. I would like to see some facts as to why they are unsafe as well.

I am overweight and I have an anterior placenta. I borrowed the angel sounds one off a friend who couldn't get it to work with her so went into it with healthy skepticism but after a lot of rooting around (using lubrication) I was able to pick up the baby's hb first try at 14 weeks. I was able to differentiate it from mine because it was twice as fast (I placed it on my heart to detect my own first). I only used it twice before I started to be able to detect fetal movements at week 16 and then I didn't need the reassurance anymore. I probably wouldn't have bought one myself but I was glad to be able to borrow one and it did give me reassurance when nothing else was available (no scan booked and too early to feel fetal movement).

Genuine question to the person who posted about it sounding like a freight train. Maybe I'm just showing my ignorance but can you explain how that is, I thought it was nothing more than a microphone, why does it make noise? Also, I thought they couldn't hear sounds before 16 weeks anyway? Thanks for the explanation.

You have to ask yourself if you have the skill to detect a problem or indeed know what is normal?

If the answer is no I would rather leave it to the professionals.

And this is another reason why I dislike them being used at home.

doppler thread

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but MissMedusa a doppler hb monitor uses the same technology as doppler radar. Radar waves? It's not just a microphone. I have a monitor which is just a microphone. It is shit and has been relegated to the dustbin.

Yes, that was my understanding, as well - it was in one of my pregnancy books and didn't really explain it, but they went so far as to say it's bet not to use one before 20 weeks and I know several hospitals now have a policy of not trying for the heartbeat before 20 weeks.

Ah ok, didn't know you could buy those. Mine is just a sound enhancer.

I think that everyone should remember that each pregnancy is different. I have an anterior placenta and feel very few movements, even now at 32 weeks. I have explained this to the midwife and she is not concerned and said that often people with an anterior placenta, particularly where mine is right in the middle, don't feel much movement throughout the pregnancy. It's very easy for others to simply say that you need to rely on movements but for those ladies like me that is not necessarily possible. Obviously if i didn't feel anything at all for a day i would get checked out but i think everyone should remember that not all women feel lots of movements everyday.

The AngelSounds doppler uses ultrasound waves and there is no evidence to suggest that they are unsafe.

The thing is, a doppler isn't 'unsafe' in and of itself as a piece of equipment. But just about any outcome from them is either unreliable, unhelpful or downright dangerous:

• You hear heartbeat. Well, this is unreliable at best and dangerous at worst. People are soooo sure that they have the baby's heartbeat, but so many cases occur when it's actually the placenta being listened to or whatever. Women have failed to present at hospital at a time where the baby could actually have been saved because of false reassurance from a doppler (reduced movement, ah I've found the heartbeat, all is well). I am sure that those women would have sworn they knew what they were doing too. No one thinks they have got it wrong.

Even if you have heard the heartbeat, it reassures you for the moment you hear the heartbeat. It doesn't tell you anything 12 hours later, so long term it is unlikely to be great for people with serious anxiety issues. And if you are talking about being 'reassured' at 16 weeks or whatever then, sadly, even if something is starting to go wrong there is very little you can do in most cases.

Or you hear something in the heartbeat that you don't have the cliincial skills to interpret, as per a current thread on here.

• You don't hear heartbeat. This is unreliable or unhelpful because so often it takes skill to hear the heartbeat, particularly early on. At 18 weeks my midwife, who is very skilled and experienced, took a good few minutes to find the heartbeat after the student with her couldn't locate it at all. So you panic yourself unnecessarily.

So, really, the only genuine use for a home doppler is 'fun' or 'bonding', but who can honestly say that they would put absolutely no medical weight on what they were hearing?

Me, I can honestly say that. I appreciate what you're saying but I have the facts, I know the limitations, I'm an adult and I like to make an informed choice.

I know I'm hearing the baby because the bpm is >140, my own resting heart rate is

But does is reassure you? How often do you need to use it to feel 'good enough'? I'm asking because I had a friend who had one of these who became more and more reliant on the 'reassurance' from the doppler. So a few hours after listening, she would worry and want to listen again. Which cannot be good for anxiety levels regardless of anything else.

Sorry for your previous losses. I've been there and I know it is hard. x

I'm not sure it's as easy to tell the difference between placenta and baby's heartbeat as that actually. The placenta doesn't 'beat' at 60 bpm like your heart. It makes more of a whoosing sound. I know my GP friend said on her obs rotation she found it quite hard to work out which was which in early pregnancy. Not saying you haven't, but I don't think it is cut and dried like '140=baby, 60= me or placenta'.

"The AngelSounds doppler uses ultrasound waves and there is no evidence to suggest that they are unsafe."

I read some research a couple of years ago which found that excessive use of ultrasound caused small holes in the internal organs of rat foetuses. Now this was scan strength ultrasound rather than Doppler strength. I'm guessing ultrasound is stronger???? Dunno, not a physicist. But it would put me off. Saying that the home dopplers have been around some years now. But are they causing damage that we're just not aware of yet?

Penguins posts are spot on.
Natale - I do sympathise. I had an anterior placenta but I was still warned very strongly against a doppler by my consultant.
No-one wants an argument on this thread, and as long as the doppler users never assume all is well with a doppler when they spot a change in movements, then it is all good.
Good luck in 2014. Wishing everyone stress free pregnancies and healthy babies.

Yes it does reassure me, especially earlier on when waiting for 12 wk scan. I've only ever used it for short periods, every few days. Now I only use it once a week, if that, just because I like hearing it more than anything else.

It's certainly not a 'whooshing' sound I hear, it's a loud thumping, da-dum-da-dum.

I used mine twice and I am absolutely certain it was the baby's heart beat I was hearing, I tested in several places, including on my own heart and I timed the difference, it was almost twice as fast. My doctor has also never had any issue picking up the baby's heart beat or differentiating it from mine starting from around 12 weeks.
The general conclusion I'm drawing from this thread is that if you want to use a doppler, engage brain first.

Glad it's helpful for you. The whoosing of the placenta can also sound quite 'beat-y'. I am sure you know what you are doing, but sadly so many women make mistakes. As long as you never use it to make a decision about whether to seek medical help (whether about a bleed, movements, other worries) I'm glad it's good for you. As I said, with my friend it drove her anxiety in the opposite direction.

No MissMedusa - I would say the conclusion is "It is very easy to make mistakes as an untrained person with a doppler. Never, ever, ever use it to decide whether to seek medical advice, and understand that you may be increasing not decreasing the risk of unnecessary panic and/or increasing your own anxiety levels"

Yes missmedusa, that's my conclusion too.

I bought a doppler and have only used it a couple of times during this pregnancy. On both occasions it was because I was worried about slightly reduced movement and, for me, it was reassuring because the baby wasn't keen on the doppler at all and would immediately attack it (funnily enough she doesn't do this with the doppler used by the midwife).

I do agree with other posters that it is relatively easy to distinguish between your HB, baby's HB and placenta noises, as long as you've heard the difference between baby's HB and placenta noises with the midwife.

However, I would never, ever use it to try to judge the baby's heart rate or to assuage any genuine concerns.

Do you mean you got lots of movement when you pressed the doppler down? Well I guess it's a twist on the glass of iced water approach . Bit more expensive, but it worked for you!

But if someone did what you did and simply heard the heartbeat and was reassured, that is exactly when a home doppler is dangerous.

I'm a MW and Nurse. Totally agree with Santa.

Being trained to auscultate a fetal heart beat isn't just about finding it. Saying the heartbeat is 140bpm isn't enough, and the speed isn't all we listen for. The rate alone is not reassuring. I was very tempted to listen in after I'd had high risk screening at 12w and I can understand why women want to. But, as I've said, finding it and understanding what you're listening to are different things.