smoked salmon question.

[qazxc]

Damn it, I have created a monster! I bought DP a pregnancy book for dads and am now subjected to daily lectures advice.
Having finally convinced him that the cats were not hatching a murderous plan for the new arrival, today's panic is about smoked salmon.
He came rushing down the stairs "you shouldn't be eating smoked salmon! or ham!". I said "oh really, i didn't know that. Anyway I don't think I have done so it's ok." . Him "Yes you have! At my mum's!". Me "oh well, it was only a slice, i'm sure it's fine". He skulked off, I don't think he is convinced and is probably googling worst case scenarios.
Is smoked salmon such a hazardous substance? Should i kick the book under the bed hoping it stays lost? In fairness it does have some advantages as I haven't had to change litter tray in months. Actually scrap that I am def kicking it under bed as he is now shouting from upstairs about the evils of homemade mayo (we have never made homemade mayo).

I know!! I didn't quite know what to say. I just told her I'm willing to sacrifice things for a while if I get a child at the end of it!

I am quite partial to chicken liver pate. But I wouldn't base life decisions on it.

You philistines!!

I lived off pâté (and soft cheese) for 6 months prior to my wedding as part of a high fat, high protein diet. It gets addictive.

I miss it terribly...

I have eaten loads of stilton, smoked salmon and Parma ham, and have had 2 of those 3 things today

The advice annoys me, because it doesn't tell you WHY you shouldn't eat these things (e.g. vitamin A, listeria, etc) or what the risks are. I've developed my own set of rules. Soft cheese made from pasturised milk is fine. Smoked salmon is fine. Parma ham from a reputable source is fine. Runny lion marked eggs are fine. I don't like pate so that's off the menu anyway, and I have cut down on caffeine and I'm having no alcohol for the first 3 months. That seems pretty reasonable to me. In fact, I enjoyed a smoked salmon and cream cheese sandwich for lunch today. It was lovely.

I follow the exact same rules as eurochick - only difference being I do like pate.. but I still don't have it in pregnancy! Everything else she lists.. yep, exactly the same. Guess we've been reading up on the same research!

Penguins talks sense on the matter too

I agree - I wish women were told not just WHY something is prohibited, but the relative risks as well. I can easily see people thinking that perhaps pate is okay after all because they were a bit lax with something else that didn't matter one tiny bit.

Article on why genuine, posh parma ham is ok

I agree Crispy. There are foods where the issue is your wellbeing (salmonella), there are issues where the harm might come to your baby from a single taste (listeria) and there are issues where the problem is dose dependent (e.g. regardless on where you personal view of the cut off of safe is, one sip of champagne at a wedding toast is not the same as 10 units a week). People are not taught to differentiate. Nor are they given genuinely good advice about avoiding food poisoning very often (e.g. regarding buffets, reheated food, etc).

The advice is also out of date. No raw eggs was good advice years ago. Now the situation is far more nuanced (basically ok if you eat lion marked eggs, but don't eat raw from a friend's hens or overseas or from dodgy sources). In fact, you are more likely to get salmonella from a dodgy kebab than a home cooked fried egg.

Oh eurochick. I am not sure you 'know' me, but I've seen you on a few threads. I assume congratulations are in order (otherwise I think yesterday's lunch is even more unremarkable ). Hope all goes well for you. x

Well I think as I haven't had any symptoms I am in the clear (I'd assume if caught listeria or salmonella i would know about it). I shall have to read up on banned food, does anyone know of an idiot proof list? Everywhere i look seems to say something different. I am not overly worried though as morning sickness only stopped last week and until then i could only eat beige foods (toast, plain pasta, porridge, bananas, etc).

I've read (in my super book- what to eat when you're pregnant) that smoked salmon is fine. Gravlax, however, is not. This is because smoked salmon has been sort of cooked, whereas gravlax is raw.... That said, I'm not touching either...

I've read (in my super book- what to eat when you're pregnant) that smoked salmon is fine. Gravlax, however, is not. This is because smoked salmon has been sort of cooked, whereas gravlax is raw.... That said, I'm not touching either...

I've read (in my super book- what to eat when you're pregnant) that smoked salmon is fine. Gravlax, however, is not. This is because smoked salmon has been sort of cooked, whereas gravlax is raw.... That said, I'm not touching either...

Every pregnant woman should buy the book I mentioned. I contains most foods (excluding pork pie, scotch eggs and German Poppy seed cake). Sorry for repeated posting above...I don't know what happened!

I gave my DH a brief lesson in the fact that as a grown woman I am allowed to eat anything I choose but for the health of me and our baby, informed by a consideration of the risks, may choose to avoid certain things. Those things have been pate, good cheese and booze. Christmas was very different this year!

Why are men so quick to provide us with the do's and dont's when they have never and will never have a clue about carrying a baby! I'm really missing three of my favourite foods right now (rare steak, muscles in white wine sauce and my mums homemade pate). It's amazing how the times change though as when my mum was pregnant they were encouraged to eat liver back then as it was supposedly very good for mother and baby.

Eurochick Bingo! This is exactly what infuriates me - give me the reasons behind guidelines ffs, I'm a grown woman and I can make my own choices based on the evidence. But only if I know what it is! I do find a lot of the advice (or the presentation of it) quite infantilising. I know they have to write accessibly so the information reaches a lot of people, but there should always be the option to learn more for those who want to.

And especially as the lists aren't even very reliably compiled! I'm pretty sure (have no research evidence though as have not looked) that the risk from bagged salad is the same as if not higher than from a pasteurised soft cheese, but pasteurised soft cheeses fall on the UK's "no" list and bagged salad does not. Yet I am sure anecdotally I read about more recalls on bagged salad than cheese.

Last night I turned down some bagged rocket but cheerfully ate the fancy parma ham

hi there
now Im confused - I thought pasterised soft cheese was ok as per this link:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/pages/foods-to-avoid-pregnant.aspx#close

I've been eating smoked salmon all over xmas. Also runny eggs, prawns, bagged salad, the odd alcoholic drink.

I can't think of anything I've actually given up, but I don't like pate or funny cheeses so don't eat them anyway.

I assume if I've bought it from a supermarket and its been washed and prepared to my standards then its ok.

The only time I've ever had food poisoning in my life has been from a restaurant or takeaway so I've been very careful when eating out.

Cheese is one of my bugbears actually.

Mould ripened soft cheese are on the banned list for listeria risk. But many soft cheeses made from pasteurised milk are said to be ok. Now, whilst it is true that unpasteurised milk is a risk for listeria, the risk of listeria from cheese actually has very little to do with whether the milk started off pasteurised or not (in the sense that starting off with pasteurised milk is probably a good idea, but doesn't mean much in overall risk from the resulting cheese) . It is like any moist, pre-prepared food - it is a possible listeria risk but not a particularly high one.

You are right though, technically the UK list allows soft cheese made from pasteurised milk as long as they are not rinded ones.

I have a friend whose father works in food hygiene. He re-washes all bagged salad products, even those labelled ready to eat and tells pregnant women that he'd avoid mr whippy style ice creams for listeria risk, but other than that thinks the rules make no sense. You have a tiny percentage risk of listeria from such a wide range of food stuffs that avoiding a few of them makes no appreciable difference to your overall listeria risk. As I've said further upthread, you reduce far more by thinking about where you eat (buffets, takeaways, etc).

Whoops - I ate some Mr Whippy style frozen yogurt while out today!

It's more about risk, isn't it? Listeria is rare - hence lots of stories of "I have eaten it and I've been fine" - but if you're unlucky enough to get it the consequences can be devastating. 9 months isn't a long time in the grand scheme of things. There are thousands of other foods out there to eat, therefore I don't take the (small) risk and just choose something else to eat.

It is about risk, but also where risk comes from.

Stopping eating the food banned for listeria risk doesn't actually reduce your listeriosis risk in any meaningful way because outbreaks come from such a range of foods (in roughly equal risk profiles) and in such a random manner. So you could avoid all the banned cheeses, but the next outbreak is just as likely to come from melon or lettuce or whatever.

On the other hand, avoiding liver does meaningfully reduce your risk of the problems associated with high vitamin A.

That is true, but isn't it still about minimising risk where possible. Its easy to avoid 'banned' foods, so I do. It's also easy to wash bagged salads etc. hmm ok, admittedly I've not given takeaways much thought, probably because they're a rarity :-(

Yeah, but say you reduce your listeriosis risk by 15% by avoiding banned foods (that is just a random percentage for illustration). You could get the same reduction by avoiding an entirely different list. Which makes the rigidity of that advice pretty ridiculous.

I am confident that I reduce my risk just as much - and probably more- by my own food rules as by avoiding banned foods.