why is there so much pressure to breast feed??

[blondebaby111]

Just that really??!!! At my first midwife app it was thrown In my face abit when I said I wasn't sure yet if I would but I'd feel more comftable doing both. Why are you made to feel like its such a crime. I'm only 12 weeks so have alot more appointments where this will be brought up.

I have friends who have breastfed and have had miserable babies that rarely settle, they are completely flustered with it and some verge on pnt because of all the pressure. Yet the friends that haven't breastfed or done both seem to have happy babies, they are a lot more happier in themselves and generally just so relaxed. So my views are mixed on this.

I don't want to start a debate but I just wish we could all make our minds up without midwives frowning or thinking its bad if we choose not too....just saying!!!

Does bf mean babies are less likely to be obese even if fed a poor diet after 6 months (or whenever they are weaned) or does bf tend to be associated with other beneficial factors such as feeding DC a healthy diet/encouraging them to exercise? It must be hard for studies to separate out one aspect of a lifestyle.

I find that from my job one of the biggest problems we face is women who say that they aren't going to breast feed because the dad doesn't want to feel left out - or words to that effect! Many women I come across admit they aren't breast feeding because their partner didn't want them to do it. It makes me want to scream.

But on the flip-side, research has shown that one of the most positive factors in women commencing and continuing with breast feeding is when they have the support of the father.

The role of the dad in whether breast feeding takes place or not is integral to decision making but it seems to be overlooked.

As a result we are looking at doing something aimed solely at the fathers - educating them on why BF is better for the baby and how they can support the mother and let them know of all the other 101 things they can do with their baby to bond with them. Are men really that silly as to think that unless they feed the baby, the baby won't love them???

Skint I don't think it's really on to say that ff-ers tend to smoke over their babies. It's blatantly not true, for one thing. and it's comments like that that get pro-bf-ers labelled as the breastapo or whatever. We need to stick purely to the facts about why bf is better. As soon as you start taking judgmental pot-shots you've lost the argument.

Thank you Phineyj,

A lot of my work involves breast feeding so it is something I'm really passionate about and I just wish there was more we could do as professionals to support women who make the choice to BF.

Phiney, there are obviously lots of factors, but some are:
Breastmilk is more digestible and doesn't encourage a baby to gain excess fat as formula can, which once established as a pattern, can be harder to alter.
It is impossible to know for sure how much a bf baby takes at each feed - it might be a few oz or just a mouthful. On the other hand, it's easy to see what a bottlefed baby eats, and often parents are tempted to encourage a baby to finish a bottle when it doesn't really need/want to. This then stretches the baby's stomach so it can take in more liquid than it arguably needs.

It never crossed my mind not to exclusively breastfeed, I just didn't consider using bottles even for a moment.

I suppose I might have noticed the pressure if I was uncertain or keen to formula feed.

Miffybun73,

My friend had a planned C-Section today and last night when I saw her, she told me that she hadn't bought any bottles, teats of formula as it hasn't even crossed her mind not to BF either

In my eyes formula feeding should be the last option, not an alternative option x

I had a planned C-section too, didn't even consider ff-ing, hadn't bought any bottles or anything else. Thank god for DH and 24hr Tesco eh

I just wanted to say Writer good luck with the support you're offering. I am not sure of the stats but don't the vast majority of women instigate breastfeeding after birth, and it's continuing that is the problem? I said several times upthread that I believe that postnatal support and not antenatal pressure info is key. If someone better than me at googling can find it, I'm sure it's the case that the vast majority of mothers do plan to bf and don't succeed. And as someone else said, new mums are kicked out of the postnatal ward ASAP, without any real support with bfing. I would like to see resources focused much much more on postnatal support, starting right there on the ward from straight after birth. I had loads of info antenatally, did NCT and all, but in the end it was lack of support postnatally that did for me. It was as though everyone was pro-bf in the entire maternity care system except the staff on the postnatal ward!

You are right Amazinggg, the hard part is getting mothers to continue breast feeding once they have started which is why I'm so eager to provide early support for new mothers.

As a general guide, HV's don't first see the babies until they are about 12-14 days old and usually it is too late then if a mother is having problems. There is a good chance that the mother will have given up BF before the HV even does their first home visit.

I am really keen to initiate an early support programme but it is just a case of finding a way to do it without stepping on the toe of midwives.

Sorry to go slightly off topic...
writer I don't know where you are based, but in Cardiff, my mw sent an MCA to my house every 24 hours for for the first 3 days after my homebirth to see how I was getting on with bf (painfully!) and then I could call them out any time up until 14-days I think.
Until recently you could also check in to an old MLU and room in until you were happy with bf.
We also have a bf clinic or peer support group running EVERY day of the week somewhere in the city. I don't know what impact this has had on bf rates here but I can only assume its had a positive impact.

I'm sure it comes down to money and staffing levels on the post-natal ward. I was so woozy and no-one explained the difference between midwives uniforms and healthcare assistants, so those first two horrendous nights where DH was kicked out and I was begging for help, to be faced with rolly eyes and really uninformed 'help' from the staff was awful. I posted upthread about it - all 8 of us on my ward, a mix of planned and emergency c-sections, we all tried to bf and all failed. We all instigated it and planned to continue, the total lack of support meant none of us did. I know that's just my experience in one hospital but I read lots on MN that suggests similar experiences. Either for post c-section or post-traumatic birth women who don't get that immediate support in the first hours and days.

Back to topic

The start up rates for Merthyr Tydfil are approx 11% (according to a bf counsellor in Cardiff) and I assume that that figure drops dramatically before the mothers have even left hospital. There seems to be a distinct lack of pressure to bf in this area, even with the Welsh Assembly's mission for all health-boards to meet UNICEFs baby friendly initiative.

The number of women bf-ing at 6 weeks is shockingly low. Is there maybe a distinct lack of pressure to bf? Formula is too readily available (I'm not even remotely suggesting it shouldn't be!)? Combined with a lack of support from family, society and nhs?

phineyj re obesity, the thinking is that breastfed babies learn to recognise when they are full and then stop feeding. Ff babies tend to be given 'a bottle' the volume of which is decided by person who made bottle rather than baby. Also some research suggests there is actually some sort of satiety (recognition of fullness) hormone in breastmilk which also helps the baby learn how much is enough.

Now I know there are some some really big bf babies and really skinny ff babies but overall bf babies have less fat tissue. I don't know the numbers but an overweight toddler is much more likely to become an overweight child, then adult

The lack of working class support for bf isn't really helped by the NHS approach, in some respects. Eg the Birth to Five book (which I don't think is routinely given to new mums now, but they are told to access online) goes on about the important of having a healthy diet if you are going to bf, and illustrates it with photos of a "healthy diet": exotic fruits and vegetables, steaks, and whole fish with the heads left on. That alienates a lot of women straight away. It also perpetuates the myth that you have to have the perfect diet to produce nutritious breastmilk (when in fact as long as you're not starving yourself, your milk will be fine even if you live on ready meals - your own health might not be great, but your baby will be just fine). Then vitamin manufacturers have cashed in on the bf market - Pregnacare breastfeeding vitamins are £14 a pack or something like that. If people see that, they might think that they NEED these supplements (when actually you only need to take a simple vitamin D supplement, and possibly a calcium one if you don't get a lot of calcium in your diet) and the price is going to put people off.

Plus, humans mimic the behaviour of other humans around them. My mum bfed her children, so I grew up knowing that was how babies were fed and assuming that's how my babies would be fed, and because she knew what she was doing she helped me feed my first baby and knew about realistic feeding behaviour in a newborn, so I was prepared. If you've only ever seen babies being bottlefed, and in particular if your own mother bottlefed you, it's natural to assume that's what you'll do. And a midwife telling you that breast is better is going to be countered in your own head with "but I'm fine, and my brothers and sisters are fine, and my friends' babies are fine..." It's not until we get more women breastfeeding in public and in diverse communities that we're going to normalise it and increase bfing rates.

Well said lurcherlover

Writer I think working with dads is a great idea. My DH didn't seem to take in much info from what I told him, but seems to have learnt a lot from other dads. I think he would have found a talk about bf just with other men less embarrassing. Do you think you can help men to be better at emotional support? Maybe, I don't know. Perhapsdads would be more likely to come if the session wasn't just about bf, however.

The info about obesity is interesting, but as it happens our single data point DD is skinny, and also seems very sure when she is full. We just stop feeding her then (the Mumsnet book mentions to do that).

However, if someone was really hard up and ff-ing it might be upsetting to throw formula away? Hmm, maybe you should be promoting bf as the 'recession proof option' .

A note - bottles aren't generally given
whether babies are hungry or not - sorry if this is obvious or the bf-ers on the thread are aware, but there are different teats for each stage, so the starter ones for tiny babies you have to suck really quite hard to get anything out, then stage two it's slightly easier, then the stage three one is 'free flow' but you do still have to shake it about a bit before it releases the milk iyswim. I don't recognise the image portrayed by some of a baby with milk basically being poured into it - it for my DS was a very active process and if he didn't want any more he would stop suckling and the milk would stop. I never made him finish a bottle - I don't even know how you would, if you're using the correct level flow of teat.

And my anecdote of a healthy happy super energetic toddler who was ff from birth, and has remained on 25th centile since then, is obviously just an anecdote, but y'know

Writer - as I mentioned waaaaaaaaaasy up thread, my hospital offer couples breast feeding classes and women only sessions. I went to the couples one and thought it was excellent. It was run by a breast feeding counsellor who took the class through a timetable of what to expect including what seemed to be a realistic account of what the problems might be. Post birth a minimum of two feeds should be observed before discharge. Bf counsellors are then on hand 8-4 during the week and midwives at the weekend. There is a bf support group too. How thus translates in to reality post birth remains to be seen but with this support it seems rude not to try!

That sounds like fantastic Lozster!!!!

Where about in the Country do you live?

My friend lives in Leeds and she said that before she had her baby a breast feeding support lady came to the house and sat with her and her husband for ages going through all the benefits of BF and then provided them with literature and a DVD to watch. My friend said it was such a good service and by the end of the visit she was in doubt that she wanted to BF - which she did for about 10 months.

Absolutely agree re the men. When I had ds there were four of us in the room. Three of us bf and one woman looked round at all of us in amazement, and she was on her fourth child, and said oh, you're all doing that, I think it's a bit ick, and my husband says my breasts are for him. BUT after a while you could see her glancing at the three of us and obviously questioning her assumptions.

Both mine were c section, I just kept them in the bed with me so it was easy to feed them.

yes, agree with getting men on board. DH was, as I now have found out, fantastic (I thought he was just doing what dads do): total support, did everything round the house so I didn't have to do a thing except focus on the feeding (DD struggled with latch to begin with, she was tiny and very weak) - he cooked, cleaned, shopped, made my lunch every day before he left for work, even tried to stay awake during night feeds to keep me company. He had been bf'd himself so I think he just though that's what you do.

My BiL on the other hand, did nothing for DSis, he didn't know why she bothered continuing when she found it hard, didn't help her in any way because he wasn't involved. He didn't seem to understand that his support of her was what he would provide for both mum and baby.

Oh, and DH loves my breasts. Loves them. It's a bit annoying, actually, he doesn't have to cart the damned things around with him!

It's good that you were allowed to keep them in the bed with you Hully. I wasn't. I had complications with my CS which meant I was in loads of pain and barely conscious. I tried to get them to put DS in bed with me but they said it wasn't safe. I failed, but I have forgiven myself because I know I couldn't have done anything differently. That may translate to you as 'not trying hard enough' though.

We need to reclaim our breasts from the sex and porn industry.

Seriously.