why is there so much pressure to breast feed??

[blondebaby111]

Just that really??!!! At my first midwife app it was thrown In my face abit when I said I wasn't sure yet if I would but I'd feel more comftable doing both. Why are you made to feel like its such a crime. I'm only 12 weeks so have alot more appointments where this will be brought up.

I have friends who have breastfed and have had miserable babies that rarely settle, they are completely flustered with it and some verge on pnt because of all the pressure. Yet the friends that haven't breastfed or done both seem to have happy babies, they are a lot more happier in themselves and generally just so relaxed. So my views are mixed on this.

I don't want to start a debate but I just wish we could all make our minds up without midwives frowning or thinking its bad if we choose not too....just saying!!!

hully really not sure why I am getting caps from you because I disagree with the benefit of using that with analogy here. You can use that analogy for anything - IMO there are clearly better ones than smoking. Like using one about peoples weight and health link I also think is not useful here, or drinking, or eating non organic food, or living in densely populated highly polluted areas, or not getting enough exercise, and on we go.

As analogies for explaining benefits of BF the smoking one is pretty bizarre at best. The benefits are more antibodies from mother to child protecting child from a range of common illnesses. This is entirely diff from explaining that smoking gives you lung cancer, a pretty much incurable illness that sees you dead in 5 months for the most part - which is what i said.

I don't think there's pressure at all. If you give birth in a hospital they will be practically throwing formula at you.

whatever

Champagne this is why I want to mixed feed - my DH works away all week, so i am on my own, in a country that is not my own 'homeland' as it were, and when he is back at weekend I will need him to help me out with the 11 O'clock feed - it is practical for us and means I know come thursday night or friday night I can get a break. BF isn't always the right choice. I think it is great we live in a place now where we have the option TBH. Actually I know a lot of mums who mixed feed - mostly with their second child and they all wish they had done so with their first one too. You may need to try a few different types teats on bottle to find the right one for your little one though.

Hully It's not that i don't get the analogy (as an ex smoker - i really do get it believe me) it's just that I think your point gets lost when you use that on it's own as why people should be given info on BF being better, which is a shame as I think you are just trying to help,

Champagne If you will be on maternity leave and your DH at work then you will probably find you do nearly all the feeds anyway as you are the only person in all day and your DH can't have a lie in the next morning. Plus when DS does wake up early DH would get him for me to feed cuddled up in bed so we could both drop off again it really wasn't a problem.

There's plenty of practical and bonding things fathers can do for ebf babies: baths and nappy changes spring to mind.

Tea I tried mixed feeding and it isn't as easy as it sounds. As soon as you miss even one bf your milk supply adjusts. I wanted to do 1 or two ff a day, but actually what happened was I ended up having to give a ff top up after every bf, as dd wasn't getting enough from me. Your boobs don't produce full feeds once you start to mixed feed. In the end I had to switch to ff as doing two feeds every feed time was ridiculous, and also dd started to give up bothering with the boob, as it was comparatively hard work.

If you want to mixed feed, also express, that way you keep your milk levels up.

Being told that breast feeding is better for the baby and mother should always be given - not to do so would be negligent.

And why on earth wouldn't professionals pass on this information? As professionals and parents we all want what is best for the baby so providing the information is vital.

As part of my job we are in no way allowed to be seen to advertise or encourage FF - we aren't even allowed to have posters or photocopied information on our persons if there is any kind of endorsement by a FF company - i.e, if there is a Cow and Gate logo in the corner.

I think that when information is given to moms-to-be they shouldn't just be told about why breast milk is better but also given leaflets and website addresses for them to research into it themselves. Sometimes reading things on a computer screen seems much less 'pushy' then being told face to face. The Baby Friendly Initiative - by Unicef - is a wonderful concept and the website is brilliant for giving information and supporting mothers.

The way I see it is that there is so, so, so much information out there that shows how breast milk is best and details all the amazing things it does for a baby, whereas I haven't seen any evidence/research that shows artificial feeding is just as good.

Like I said, there are plenty of reasons why women either can't breast feed in the first place (health reasons) or they have to stop earlier than planned (usually for the health of the baby) and I sympathise with all of them and understand it - but I really struggle to get my head around the idea that some women are against it and don't even try.

But, saying that, as has been said before, a lot of women who have said they aren't going to breastfeed usually find that when baby is born all their previous thoughts go out the window and before they know it, baby is on the breast. I think it must feel like the most natural thing in the world to start breast feeding your baby after it has come into the world

at Worsester thanks for that info - I had thought that through so I have been prepared and got a pump in advance from another Mum. I can also rent or get a prescription for an electric pump here which i will do I think, from the pharmacy. Ideally i would get the feeding established, and the bottle feed with expressed milk in place, before moving to FF for the night feed was my thinking. I was also thinking to express a bit extra and freeze it. I know some women who had no issues with supply, and some that did not was looking at erring on the side of caution. I know it sounds like a faff to some - but I am a bit worried being on my own with baby for the main stretch of the week, partic not having my Mum close by, and if I know I can at least get DH to help me a bit when he comes back at weekends it saves my sanity a bit.

Writerwannabe - I agree that the information should be provided. I think this thread has hit a bit of a rut because it is undeniable that the way the information is presented by some NHS staff is experienced as pressure. So many posters are determined to say it's not pressure, it's information. In my experience it was pressure. And I so strongly feel that the way to increase bf rates in this country is to vastly improve postnatal care. The majority of women plan to breastfeed, then the majority of them fail to establish it properly. That is what should be looked at and discussed - not banging on about 'breast is best' which makes so many women who are undecided or plan to ff, switch off. Refocus money and effort on supporting women to bf and rates would shoot up I think. I'm sure it must vary a lot by region and hospital, but there was just zero support for bf-ing after I'd given birth by CS. I think in the attached midwife-led unit there is more support, which is great, but in my local hospital all 8 of us on my post-CS ward tried, and failed, to establish bf before checking out. That's what needs to be looked at, not piling on the pressure. If you didn't experience pressure then it doesn't mean that many women do. Pressure, and no support.

Tea, just bear in mind that you may not be able to express. I bfed my DS for 17 months, ebf for 6 months and wasn't able to express, even with an electric pump. For some women, only a baby can get the milk out! For others, they can't express enough for full feeds.

The bfing boards also have plenty of women who started mix feeding and ended up ffing due the the mix feeding messing up their supply, or causing the baby to refuse the boob in favour of the bottle.

It's good to plan, but unfortunately with bfing, lots of different things can happen to bugger up plans, so being aware of potential issues is important.

When baby arrives, the breast and bottlefeeding section on here is brilliant for help and support, whatever you choose to do.

It's the 'breast is best, end of' shit that really gets my back up. Its not always best and it shouldn't be 'end of'

Where do women like me fit in if that's the end of it?

" If you didn't experience pressure then it doesn't mean that many women do. Pressure, and no support."

so many of my friends have stories of how they were offered very little help in hospital, how they were offered formula top-ups either in hospital or advised to use them by midwives once home. If there is any pressure then it's implied pressure months before the baby arrives. In my experience once the baby is here the pressure suddenly becomes 'you're starving the baby, you need to use formula...'

"it's the 'breast is best, end of" - yes, but breastmilk is best. it's better than formula so it is best. There's nothing above it. That's a truth.

tea what I found really helped me at the weekends was when dh did everything but feed. The feeding was the easy bit so having dh do all the settling/changing/winding meant I got a really good rest.

I think the reason people are so negative about mixed feeding is that for a lot of people it is unsustainable and we know people who ended up fully ff earlier than they would have chosen because of the negative effect on supply. I personally don't know anyone who mixed fed past 4 months. It does depend in how long you think you would want to bf for though.

If you do want to mix feed then you have to be strict with yourself and stick to that one feed at 11pm. There will be some nights when your baby has a growth spurt when they will then wake at 12, 1, 3 etc hungry and you need to give them as bfeeds to build your supply. I think the temptation is to think they need more than bmilk and to give them an extra bottle and this will prevent your supply from increasing.

Sorry that last paragraph is really poorly explained

YY Social, that's what I experienced. Zero support whilst I was high as a kite on painkillers and semi-conscious other than someone wandering in every so often waking me up and saying 'have you fed that baby recently'? (But not helping me hold him or pass him to me, I couldn't sit up without help and was in obscene amounts of pain) - before shaking their heads and wandering off again. Then, yes - appearing with a bottle of formula and I resisted several times, saying it would be fine and please could they just help me, but no. It's quite upsetting to write about, and yes Hully I do feel guilty. Does that vindicate you? Would you like to shout 'breast is best' at me again? Feeling guilty and crap about my experience makes me motivated to post here about my opinion on what would have actually helped me. I'm not 'getting defensive' - I'm frustrated at the posters who think shouting at ff-ers is the way forward.

I mixed fed and it was wonderful -

BF all day, one FF at around 10/10.30pm baby slept til 5.30/6am (unless a growth spurt and then they sometimes woke at 2.30/3am for a BF .. I did that for just over a year with both of my girls.

No social, formula was better than my breast milk so its not end of. You can't discount mum like me just because we don't fit your argument.

I come across many women who tell 'horror stories' about the way they were treated in one hospital after having giving birth. Some women were sent home after the baby had had only one breast feed and the mother's then really struggled when they got home and had no support which led to them switching to FF. Other women said that because the hospital was desperate for the bed they were told to just, "Give the baby a bottle" and then sent home without having even being helped to breast feed once.

In the County I work in they are now trying to cut costs in the Midwifery Department and it is in the pipeline that once a baby has born the midwife will no longer be doing home. The idea is that if a woman is having problems she will have to make her way to wherever the midwife is based - just what new moms want to do.....not!

Me and one of my colleagues are looking at putting some sort of support system in place in order to help the mom's at the very early stages of breast feeding. We are thinking of asking the hospitals to let us know when a breast feeding mother has been discharged and then we will then make phone contact the next day to ask if they would like a home visit to support them with their feeding. Sometimes they may just have a few questions or worries that can be dealt with over the phone - it will be totally up to them.

Health Visitors don't routinely have contact with the baby until it is about 12 days old and that is quite late to be offering breast feeding support if the mother has been struggling since Day 1. If the mother hasn't had any support then there is a good chance she may have given up before the HV gets to her which is a real shame .

Doublecake, your experience wasn't normal so I can see that it wasn't best for you. All things being equal though breastmilk is better for a baby than formula. I too had a baby in special care and I fought really hard to breastfeed.

Thanks to Made, Stark and Noble posting back to me. I will definitely be moving over to the feeding forum once she is here. It's a good point about getting DH to do all the other stuff - TBH he is great with that anyway and mucks in quite happily. I am looking at a c-section due to her being footling breech - this makes me think my milk will take longer to come in? Does anyone have experience of that? I also have a week discrepancy between scan date for EDD and my date - so I would be asking them at 38 weeks and a bit by their dates for c-section, but 39 weeks and a bit by mine. I don't know if that impacts anything either. I still want to try and express etc and see where I get to with it. I have found by being really clued up and reading LOADS and people giving me their experiences with it all has helped me enormously - so thanks again!

grr I mean Tarka! sorry!!!

It's not useful to keep saying breastmilk is better than formula. It's just not

I might start going on the weightloss threads and keep posting 'eat less' and the complex relationship threads and say 'just leave' and the drinkin ones and say 'just stop after one' and threads where people are struggling to stop smoking and say 'just stop'. Who knew life was so simple and clear cut, eh?

I think that in terms of 'Breast is Best' - which as professionals we aren't allowed to say anymore - means that breast milk is better for the baby IF it goes successfully.

Breast milk is better for the babies health, the mother's health and meets the baby's nutritional needs better than artificial feeding - but, that is only the case if breast feeding is effective.

If breast feeding doesn't go well it can lead to lots of problems for the baby: jaundice, failure to thrive, weight loss, increased sodium levels, dehydration etc and at worst can result in the baby being admitted to hospital. In order to try and prevent things getting to that level we would consider the option of supporting mom to FF or advise they offer top-ups. Some mothers are devastated about it whereas others are so desperate to help their baby they will put a bottle in its mouth as soon as they can. It is all very individual.

When we come across the above health problems with the baby we try to encourage mothers to continue BUT we also know when the baby's best interests are not being met due to unsuccessful breast feeding. We try and help the mother to solve any breast feeding problems and do all we can to get BF back on track, but for some women it just doesn't work out the way everyone wants it to.

As I have said before - in an ideal world all babies would be breast fed, but life doesn't work out that way and for some mothers and babies it just doesn't make sense to pursue something that isn't working.

All that matters is a happy and healthy baby