why is there so much pressure to breast feed??

[blondebaby111]

Just that really??!!! At my first midwife app it was thrown In my face abit when I said I wasn't sure yet if I would but I'd feel more comftable doing both. Why are you made to feel like its such a crime. I'm only 12 weeks so have alot more appointments where this will be brought up.

I have friends who have breastfed and have had miserable babies that rarely settle, they are completely flustered with it and some verge on pnt because of all the pressure. Yet the friends that haven't breastfed or done both seem to have happy babies, they are a lot more happier in themselves and generally just so relaxed. So my views are mixed on this.

I don't want to start a debate but I just wish we could all make our minds up without midwives frowning or thinking its bad if we choose not too....just saying!!!

I'm not being condescending champagne, I'm saying that a feeling doesn't = an argument.

The 'breast is obviously best, comment is the one that I disagree with BTW

champagne - you can't "disagree" with the truth

You might not like it, but you can't disagree with it

Amazinggg, I don't see why you are getting so upset.

Stealth's points are about evidenced based research.

Smokers don't debate that their habits are increasing their risk of cancer.

I don't debate with my dentist when he points out that my laziness regarding flossing and fondness for Haribos is increasing my risk of tooth decay and suggest that that isn't true.

No-one would debate that not wearing a seatbelt in the car increases your risk of injury in the event of a crash.

So why debate that formula increases the risk of some illnesses, in both mother and baby? That is Stealth's point. It has nothing to do with saying formula is as bad as smoking. She is making the point that people seem happy to accept scientific evidence for some habits but not for others - in this case, ff.

Champagne, it is obviously your choice how you feed your baby. To address some of your points: it is messy, although leaking varies enormously from woman to woman. But in terms of convenience, when I feed my baby at night I don't even have to get out of bed. I can leave the house for hours and hours and not worry about running out of milk, or sterilised bottles. I never have to wash up bottles, or run a steriliser, or worry about what temperature the kettle is. I never run out of milk or have to trek to other supermarkets if my local one has sold out of my preferred brand. I think bf is pretty convenient, really. My husband can't do any feeds, it's true. He could if I expressed, but to be honest, feeding a baby is the easy bit once bf is established. I get to sit on the sofa and watch tv - there's plenty he can do in terms of nappies, bathing, taking baby for a walk in the pram so I can nap... In terms of medication, the vast majority of medicines are safe for bf (certainly most over the counter drugs, antibiotics, the mini pill etc) and safe alternatives can be found for most of the ones that aren't (eg there are appropriate antidepressants). You can drink some booze too. And I'm not sure what you mean about being restricted by timings? I just feed whenever.

Anyway. You have to weigh everything up and make up your own mind. For me, bf is hugely empowering: I love seeing how big my baby is getting on just my milk alone. I love knowing I'm giving her the perfect food for long-term health, and helping my own health at the same time. I love the headrush of happy hormones (oxytocin) I get when feeding her. And yes, I'm pretty lazy and love that for 6 months, I don't have to do any washing up, food prep or food shopping for my baby.

what don't you agree with champagne?

That breast is best?

But it is.

Lurcherlover,

Your post about your experience of breast feeding put a huge smile on my face.

How heavenly and lovely it sounds

x x

you are hopelessly illogical

good luck anyway

And I haven't been hostile, I have politely pointed out the illogicality of your position

you just don't like it

I have to agree with champagne I have lots of personal issues with breast feeding. The main being that I am very self conscious about my own body and don't want to feed in front if people. I am also very concerned that by doing all the feeds my DH won't get to bond the same way with the baby as he can't do any. We have a large group of friends and the majority of both families are male so therefore there will be lots of men in our house visiting once baby is born and I can't think if anything that would make me more uncomfortable than feeding baby in front of them.
Therefore I made my own decision that I would formula feed. But I also want baby to get the antibodies from my milk so agreed with DH that I will do the early mornings no night times feeds as breast feeds as we are likely to be alone then but all others will be FF.
However when I discussed this with my midwife she said no that is not a good idea you should just BF and asked did I not want to do what's best for baby. Other people have also tried to convince me telling me to cover baby and breast with a blanket!!
I feel that this is trying to push me into something I don't want to do even though I am trying my best! So yes I do think there is pressure and I'll be honest this thread has done nothing to convince me that there isn't a lot if pressure put on mums. X

RJM, your midwife probably suggested that wasn't a good idea as it's not really a realistic model of how bf works. It is very much a supply and demand-based system, and relies on the baby being put to the breast at very frequent intervals (at least every 2 hours in the early weeks, and often more frequently like this). The truth is that only offering the baby the breast in the morning and at night time, and not during the day, is unlikely to ever get your supply going enough to make sufficient milk. Once supply is well established it's possible to drop to a couple of feeds a day and still have milk for those feeds - but this only happens after you've been exclusively breastfeeding for a while. Plus, babies feed differently from a breast than from a bottle. At the breast they have to actively suck, and no milk is released if they don't. A bottle will drip milk into their mouth without them actively sucking. For this reason, babies who are offered both often come to prefer the bottle as they don't have to work as hard at getting milk out, so they may then start to refuse the breast.

I really wouldn't worry about your DH "bonding with the baby". Babies are designed to be fed by their mothers, and they bond perfectly well with their fathers and other caregivers in other ways.

See how you feel when the baby is here. It's really hard to picture it now, because you're thinking about an abstract baby who isn't actually here yet, so all you can think of right now is that bf means getting your boob out in front of other people. When the baby comes, you might feel very different. My second baby was born by c-section, and I remember while they were putting the spinal block in in theatre I was leaning over so they could do it and my hospital gown fell open at the front. I felt embarrassed and quickly covered myself up. But as soon as dd was born and we were in recovery, I did skin to skin and wasn't bothered at all about my breast being on display (I could have done it discreetly, but I just genuinely didn't feel bothered). It was like as soon as the baby was there, my breasts just became about feeding the baby, and I didn't feel embarrassed. It's hard to describe. I would feel embarrassed exposing a breast in public, but I have never felt embarrassed about breastfeeding in public (and it is perfectly possible to feed very discreetly without using a blanket - I never have any flesh on display at all).

Champagne, RJM - I am ancient and 36 weeks preggers with a baby I took 7 years to conceive. I say this as I think it influences how I feel about my body (ive had good use to date of it (!) plus it now been fiddled with on a regular basis by large groups of people so I've probably developed a tougher skin) and what i know about bf. 7 years ago my thoughts would have been along the lines of 'its a bit icky' too. I think by the time your little one pops out your feelings about your body may have changed a little.

I urge you to go to any classes or support groups you are offered to do some fact finding. You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion and to make your decision based on this but I think what raises heckles of people on here is disputing facts that are, in so much as anything can be, scientifically proven. As a famous scientist once said 'you are entitled to your own set of opinions but not to your own set of facts'.

I can only share my experience of the workshop I went to in the northwest. The message was everyday you can feed helps then a big information share on the benefits, the problems you may experience, how to actually bf and what to do if its not working out. I did not perceived this to be pressure, just an information share.

RJS - thanks for sharing your concerns. I can relate to them and the counsellor touched on some of them at the workshop I went to. I think that some of the issues (milk coming in, leakage, mess etc) you are going to face anyway even if you ff from the off. Your body thinks you will bf so it's going to kick in with all of these responses until it gets the message that you aren't taking that route! In terms of convenience - once you are set with bf you can respond much more quickly to a hungry baby. The advice currently is to make up one bottle at a time to minimise contamination so at 2.00 am once you've realised your baby is hungry they will have to wait while you make a bottle up.

On the visitors/need to feed in public I have some trepidation too! I think before I managed to get pregnant I though of pregnancy/birth as being a messy old business but one that you could draw a line under when you left the hospital with a lovely baby to show off. Now I know some more about the whole birth process I have in my head an idea of stages of recovery. So I'm thinking that my life will be chaotic and my body in various stages of pain/recovery for at least six weeks post birth. There's unlikely to be a time that comes quickly where I have a beautifully dressed perfect baby to present and trying to establish bf is just part of that. If it means that I am in my bedroom rather than entertaining then so be it but actually, I think you will work a compromise out with your partner so you get privacy and the relatives get a look in.

So I guess what I'm saying is remain open minded as pregnancy and birth will change so much of how you feel about many things.

Guessing amazinggg will vanish agai having called me nasty and still refused to answer my point because she cba.
Handy.
There is a place for helping women breastfeed and there is a place for debating evidence based advice. I would like to do both if thats ok with you.

I bf and had a happy settled baby - am now feeding a toddler.

My sister has 4 and hated the idea.

It is a very personal choice - just make this clear if you feel pressured, and ask them very politely to give you the information so YOU can make the decision

RJM - as has been said, breast feeding only works and becomes established if the baby is put to the breast for at least 10 times a day in the early weeks. If frequent volumes of milk are not being expelled to a baby then your brain thinks no milk is needed and so stops producing it. It works on a supply and demand basis.

If there are men in the house and you don't want them to see you feeding then go and feed upstairs. The baby getting its milk is the priority, not the visitors who might be left wondering where you are :)
My sister used to disappear for hours when she was BF her little ones!!

There are many, many things a dad can do with the baby - feeding is not the only way in which a baby bonds with its parents.

I don't mean this to come across as judgemental in any way but if my hubby said he didn't want me to breast feed because he'd feel left out I'd tell him to p*ss off, grow up and stop being so bloody selfish

He knows my feelings on the matter though so he wouldn't even dare suggest it :)

This pernicious myth about fathers not being able to bond if the mother is breastfeeding is just so damaging. And (very mildly) offensive to men like my DH, who have bonded just fine, thank you.

I agree Liz. I don't care whether anyone chooses to bf or formula feed, but using the excuse that it allows the father to bond is just feeble.

Besides, I don't particularly think that feeding your baby is that bonding anyway. Just having a cuddle is though, and anyone can do that.

This is so true and only seems to have developed in recent years - the fathers not being able to bond idea, I mean. My DH bonded with our two sons perfectly well even though I bf both for a year. His favourite thing was getting in the bath with them when they were very small - they loved their time with Daddy!

Oh, and he did all of the shopping, cooking, organising whilst working full time whilst I was a SAHM for seven years.

On the subject of Father's bonding... I exclusively breastfed DD until 6 months old, she never had a drop of formula, I didn't leave her to go out until she was 5 months old, excepting maybe the odd trip to the supermarket and although she has a few bottles of expressed milk, she was a bottle refuser for a few months because once I'd got feeding established and already had a good freezer supply of milk, it was so easy just to feed her I didn't bother with expressing milk or giving bottles any more at all. DH giving expressed milk at night certainly didn't work, it took forever, I'd be awake anyway and then I'd end up breastfeeding DD back to sleep... I am also still breastfeeding DD now at 2 with no plans to stop. However, she is and always has been, a real 'Daddy's girl'. There are, of course, times when she will only want me, but there are also times when only daddy will do and she will happily sit cuddled up on the sofa with him and watch something on TV or read a book, do a puzzle etc and when he is not here she constantly asks for him.

Also, I remember when I had my first baby...

I was 19 and I can remember trying to decide whether to try breastfeeding or not. I wanted to give it a go, but it felt very weird to me. I just couldn't really get my head round the idea of a baby 'sucking' at my breast. It didn't even occur to me that I might have to feed in public. I can remember my partner's brother and his wife visiting and going off into into the corner of the other room away from them so I could try and feed the baby, because it just felt so alien to me.

Now I am much older, have had many more children and am totally comfortable with breastfeeding in front of anyone and anywhere. However, it's a lovely excuse to bugger off upstairs when you have annoying visitors or fancy a nap or rest... 'I'm just going upstairs to feed the baby....'

Some of these posts make me quite sad actually. Like I said before it is obviously true there are known health benefits of BF over FF. But I have a very close friend who struggled massively with BF. Baby kept losing more and more weight, she was distraught. This went on for over a month, and she was very much on the edge of reality by this point TBH. It was her dear midwife and HV who suggested that in her case FF may well be a better option. It was because of unknown health issues at that time with her child (which are personal so i wont post about). The point was after all of that she felt truly guilty for being unable to BF. And this was heartbreaking to watch TBH.

I see it all like this - yes breast feeding is the best option, but a, you can mixed feed (i.e. dream feed at 11 by bottle), or express and bottle and b, if it doesn't work then FF is perfectly fine. Because not that far away our children will be eating, and unless we have some very exceptionally dedicated people on here, won't we all be using convenience foods to a certain degree? and foods that are known to be unhealthy - like chocs, crisps, cakes, sweets, even fruit juice now? and so on. So obviously we all know that organic, from scratch meals provide all sorts of health benefits - but we wont be doing that every day (or at least I won't!) .

A further anecdote - my DH was in intensive care for a few weeks when he was born, my MIL milk did not come in, he had to be given formula then. She was able to BF her second child no problem. He is fine, and as a FF person he gets very cross about women being pressured sometimes over it. He is like 'er I am fine', and he also gets a bit about the smoking analogy. To link smoking into BF vs FF is a bit strange really - FF does not give you cancer, with a life expectancy of 5 months once diagnosed now does it. Having witnessed cancer at first hand I find it very sad people would use that to explain about BF being better. It would be better to point out the antibodies protect against common illnesses really, which is true, but if you baby gets a cold then they will be ok (if you FF that is) so it isn't the end of the world.

I just think all the way from the minute we know we are pregnant there is a 'right' way considered the gold standard (no alcohol, specific diet, natural birth etc) and this kind of pressure to some is overwhelming, and certainly can't help in areas like pre natal depression, and PND. Shouldn't we all just support each others choices? It would be considered very odd indeed if we all had a pop at someone for feeding their child crisps, fizzy drink and cake at a kids party for example. Can't we all just be a little bit kinder to each other and congrats to all expectant mums.

Oh for goodness' sake.

For the 5 millionth time

NOONE HAS SAID THOSE THAT CAN'T BF SHOULD FEEL BAD

NOONE HAS LINKED FF TO SMOKING

The analogy goes thus: If you shouldn't give out health info eg that breast is best, in case ffeeders feel bad, then you shouldn't say not somking is best in case smokers feel bad

SURELY PEOPLE CAN SEE THIS IS NOT LINKING FORMULA AND SMOKING IT IS THE PRINCIPLE OF GIVING INFO