Don't know what to say to her

[Jenie]

I'll start by saying that my db and his gf are expecting a baby - gf is only 1month gone but has told everyone already..... well I know that my db didn't want children and feel that his gf has done this deliberatly as I know that she was on the pill at the time.

I'm realy cross about it as I feel that she's done this deliberatly and against my db's wishes as he has always said that he doesn't want children and she is adamant that she is going to keep the baby.

They do live together but their relationship isn't all that great infact it's terrible where by my db has been contemplating leaving for some time but as they own the house and are paying the mortgage he feels unable to do so, understandably db isn't forcing his gf to have an abortion or anything but is saying that it has to be her decision and that he'll do his best either way, she has seen this as lack of support and is cross with him saying that it's just another decision that she has to make.....

Her father is delighted but I don't think he understands that their relationship is in such a bad way due to her controlling nature - db can't even go out to see his friends anymore without her having a major strop so he has virtually stoppped just ot keep the peace.

She is using me and my dp as an example of if they can do it then so can we.

I know that she's going to phone me on Friday to give me the news but I don't think that I can even pretend to be happy for her, afterall she has gone against my db's wishes in falling pregnant in the 1st place and then I feel as though she's belittling me in that it obviously can't be that hard to raise a family if and can do it! I know that she's used those exact words as my sil told me wish she hadn't.

What would any of you do? Any help appreciated I know I've ranted and not made much sense but please help.

Jenie, have you talked to your db about this? it may help you to guage what your reaction to her might be.

I do symphatise with you, but to be honest I wouldn't say anything. I always stay out of other peoples relationships even if it's close friends/family.

message withdrawn

TBH I would tend to think it wasn't any of my business unless my brother asked me for advice. OK their relationship may not be great but he has chosen to stay with her (a mortgage is a pretty poor excuse for not leaving if things are that bad). Doesn't sound the greatest relationship in the world but I don't think its really much to do with you- it's your brother's choice. I would just say congratulations tbh.

I had a brief chat with db yesterday at whilst he was at work, his gf listens in on the other line when I call at his home!

Db needless to say is shocked, more so that gf's parents knew last week and he only got told this week!

I know that his gf will want me to be happy and say the usual congrats but I honestly don't feel happy for her, she knew right from the start with her relationship with my db that he didn't want children....... and as for her comments about me and my dp there just mean and thoughtless. As I said though I just wish sil hadn't told me what she said.

My brothers and I are very close, although I don't live close to them anymore, I never get involved with their relationships, but do wear my heart on my sleeve, after all if I can't say to them OMG what were you thinking then who can I say it to? Obviously never to sil or gf.

I have said to db that he should have been taking precautions as well especially as he went through a cancer scare and had to have an operation on his testicles which apparently reduced his "out put", then gf did mention having children but he was adamantly against it even then.

As for ganging up on his gf I wish we did, usually I just say hmmmmm or I don't know so stay non-commital to questions regarding their relationship.

I haven't said anything that I may regrett saying as I haven't said anything other than "it takes 2 to tango and you're just as responsible for taking the right precautions as *" I know though that his gf will expect great cheers and lots of attention from all of our side of the family when none of us feel it.

Spoke to other brother this morning and he has said that sil is devestated as they've been trying for a baby for almost a year now so that may explain the stirring on her part.

message withdrawn

Jenie,

Your brother's relationship with his gf sounds v. similar to my db's with his wife (though no children, thank God). Even though I never liked db's wife and felt she was totally wrong for him (also controlling, he stopped seeing his friends and family, seemed deeply unhappy but put a brave face on etc.) I always kept my own counsel. It was hard sometimes, especially when I saw Mum so upset at hardly ever seeing her son, even though they only lived a few miles away.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, they split up (he found out she had been having an affair with his friend, when they had been married less than a year). And I was so glad that I hadn't ever said anything, or fallen out with my db over it all, because it made it easy for him to come back into his family. Their divorce is final next month, and his life is finally getting back to normal (she has well and truly screwed him financially and emotionally). My point is that, if the relationship isn't going to work out, your db HAS TO DECIDE THAT FOR HIMSELF. It isn't your place to say anything - and if you do bring things to a head, you may make it hard for him to mend bridges if he needs you in the future.

Just force yourself to seem pleased when you hear the news of the baby - and let things run their course. It will be very sad if their relationship doesn't work out, especially with a child involved, but you have to try and saty neutral - and be there for your db if he needs you.

HTH.

I agree with Twigglett. I understand that you are protective over your brother but at the end of the day it is not your business. You can not possibly say that she did it 'on purpose', you will never know. I think it is pretty unfair of you to make that judgement of her.

I think you getting involved will only end in tears, you could well end up losing your realationship with your brother, which is the last thing you would want. Think very carefully before you voice your concerns in such a bold way.

Of course she will expect congratulations. Wouldn't we all?
Can you not look beyond your dislike of this girl and remember that this unborn baby is your niece/nephew? How is this poor child going to feel if one day he or she finds out that their daddy's family all wished that he/she had been aborted because they didn't like his/her mummy?

Contraception should be the responsibility of both parties. I think it's unfair to blame everything on just one person. After all, what if it had been tour db who had wanted children and the gf didn't? Would the family be saying that it was all your brother's fault as he had 'obviously' got her pregnant on purpose?

Difficult !! Sounds similar to my BIL and SIL - when she came around to us soon after she found out she was pregnant we were fairly honest, I think. We said that we were surprised that she was pregnant as BIL had said so often said he would never have children but that if they are happy and looking forward to the new arrival then we are happy for them too. Turned out that neither of them really wanted the poor kid and he has spent his life being dumped on various grandparents and us (but that is another story).
Jenie - re. her comments re. you and your family, I would take that as a compliment - you obviously make it look so easy to be parents.

I don't want her to have an abortion I just think that she shouldn't be pg in the 1st place, I wouldn't dream of saying anything nasty to her but on the same hand I don't do false emotions, I'd rather say something like "great, well done" then change the subject.

Knowing gf though she'll keep picking at it, she often does this when she thinks she's found something that I disagree with, just for the reaction she may get. Very rarley do I rise to the bait.

This is just another way that she has chosen to take over his life, she inherited a dog just b4 xmas, very sad that a relative of hers died but why agree to inheriting a dog? Db hates dogs as does their cat, gf has been trying to find a home for the cat without consulting db, I only know through mutual friends - as in they got asked to have the cat, then called me to ask why I hadn't agreed to have it and no I haven't said anything to db and asked them to do the same. I belive that gf should do this as it's not my place.

I guess that this is just another example of gf living on her own planet.

Marthamoo - that's exactly how db seems to me, deeply unhappy all of the time, trys not to talk about it as he knows that we'd just get upset on his behalf but puts up with it all the same.

I'm going to just keep quiet about how I feel as you're right if everything does blow up I don't want it to have anything to do with me or something I've said to either of them. But great cheers I don't think I can manage.

Hmm, sorry Jenie but I can't see whats wrong here.
Your brother (a free thinking adult) has conceived a baby with his girlfriend. She didn't do it on her own. He has decided to stay with her, this is his own choice.
She has inherited a dog and that upsets you?
Do you think theres a chance that you are still treating your brother as a child? I have been in a similar situation (I was the gf). Now my dh and I are married (obviously) happy (most of the time) and have 2 lovely children. Relationships alsways look worse from someone elses perspective. Perhaps you only hear the bad points that your brother chooses to tell you. He won't tell you about the happy moments or the times when he was to blame for certain arguements.
You should be ecstatic that you future sil is going to have your neice/nephew. It will be a tough time for her why don't you be the one to help? Not liking the situation won't make it go away.
Let your brother live his own life and do your best to be happy and supportive for them.

I do agree that careless remark was hurtful and it shows that she hasn't matured yet and so can't see how these things might upset a mother. But be assured that motherhood changes who you are and how you interact with people. You may grow to like each other.

If he was so sure he didn't want children why didn't he get a vasectomy a long time ago?

I would just be neutral on the phone, Jenie. "Yes, DB told me you were expecting." in a neutral tone, not happy, not disapproving. I don't think "Congratuations" is obligatory, esp. when you can't say it with any sincerity. Just, "When are you due? How are you feeling? Let me know if I can help out at all. I hope it all goes well for you" would be ok (IMHO). You can be "nice" without being gushing.

One of my brothers sired children in casual relationships by different mothers; he is a brain-damaged drug-addict who took little concern over contraception, and both women are dead-set against abortion. Brother cares little about his own children; meanwhile, the mothers are fairly nuts, living on disability & benefits. But it's not my niece & nephew's fault, and it would never help if I followed my instincts and slapped them all around the face saying "WHAT did you think you were doing?!"

HAve to say Jenie I'm pleased my SIL doesn't get involved in our relationship like this! Really its your brothers choice, he's an adult if he doesn't want a dog/child/whatever then he needs to talk to his gf about it.

Vasectomy - not much chance as he's only just 26!

I guess that I'm going to go for the when's it due and if there's anything I can do to help let me know, route. Regardless of how much I'd like to string gf up.

I do know that db is an adult and that he is more than capable of making his own decisions. Dating a bunny boiler wasn't one of his best though, and getting the bunny boiler pg is just madness imo.

As for getting too involved, it's hard to watch someone you love being manipulated, bullied and brow beaten by anyone.

Jenie, I really feel that you should butt out, sorry. My sil is not my favourite person in the world, and I find her quite rude and bossy to my brother at times BUT he loves her and married her and it really is not any of my business.

If you don't think that you can say anything that you don't actually feel, can't you say something positive about the baby such as how you are looking forward to being an aunt and holding your newborn niece/nephew. How nothing can beat the smell of a clean baby etc?

message withdrawn

I'm with twiglett on this. absolutely.

Sometimes men to get vasectomies quite young; am sure I saw a MNetter saying her husband had one at age 24. Admittedly, usually after having children.

I am on your side, Jenie, honest. But if the pregnancy goes ahead this woman will be mother to a child who is your blood kin, and therefore will have a life-long link to you. You have to be diplomatic, no matter what you think of her.

Tbh the gf doesn't get made to feel pushed out by the family, my other brother and his wife see them atleast once a week (gf permitting) she gets invited to all the family gatherings, none of us are rude to her in any way - we wouldn't dare be as db would only get it in the neck when they get home. I didn't even comment on the fact that she made db miss my other brothers stag do when he was going to be best man.

I guess that my db could be viewed as weak but I'd like you to reverse it and think if he were a woman with a controlling partner how would you all be reacting? Not with the "butt out" you'd be saying "tell her to get out of the controlling relationship", "what a nutter she's with". So it's a bit of a double standard isn't it that women shouldn't be pushed around or bullied by men but that it's ok for women to do it to men. And these men are weak but the women are victims.......

Thank you Zebra I honestly think that you understand what I'm going through. And you're right diplomacy is going to be the key.

Jenie I was a woman in a controlling relationship - and I chose to get out - and one thing Ihave to say is that we could not have had a child whne he started to go mad because I could not have sex with him - your DB must feel something for her if he sleeps with her and when you sleep with someone IMHO you are taking the risk that that someone may get pregnant - I feel quite sorry for her - she seems a little mixed up and may need help - you could be the one to embrace her and help her out - as for your brother I think he is being incredibly horrible to speak like this to his family about the woman who is going to be the mother of his child - especially when they are in a relationship still and a mortgage etc is not a good enough reason to stay in a relationship a baby is a much bigger commitment - he should have taken precautions himself if he really did not want kids.

Beice to her - try to be the beter person - you can then feel really good about yourself and know that whatever she said/did you did not rise to her taunts - through everything that has happened to me I know that everything is on the side of the person who satys the 'white'an IYKWIM. If it all goes wrong you can say you did your best to help them through there troubles and if it works out you cannot be held accountable for any bad feelings.

Hope you don't mind me saying but you do sound a little jealous of your brother's relationship with his girlfriend. Relationships with siblings do change when they pair up, and it's quite painful sometimes to realise that you will never be the one that they confide in first any more - or you shouldn't be.

I do know how you feel, I cannot stand my sil and also have a brother (who I was very close to) who vowed he'd never have another child after the first. And then said it again after the second. BUT, it is their relationship, they have to deal with it.

I do think it is a little disrespectful of your brother to speak badly of his girlfriend to you(sorry if he hasn't, might be misinterpreting that bit).

But, I think you're a little jealous of not being the main woman in your brother's life before and see this woman as the cause of that.

message withdrawn