Your chance to tell a person who wouldn't give up their seat on the tube for a heavily pregnant woman what you think of them.

[dizietsma]

On another message board I frequent, someone has posted a thread about how they wouldn't give up their seat on the tube for a heavily pregnant woman because she "chose" her disability and is therefore somehow less deserving of consideration.

I'm going to link this thread to the other and let this person see for themselves how pregnant women feel about such (IMO) nasty attitudes. Lets try to keep it civil, eh? I think this person needs to know about how disabling late pregnancy is, not just how unacceptable an attitude this is.

Below is the full text of the initial post.

"Just received this in email entitled “a heartwarming tale” and provoked a wee discussion in the office about tube etiquette.

sadly not ours, but a fine example is set for us all to follow.

"My friend Connie, who continued working in a Manhattan summer right up to the birth of her first childwas standing on the subway from Brooklyn and began to feel faint. She asked a respectable looking young man if she could possibly have his seat. He ignored her. She asked again. He rustled his Wall Street Journal, crossly.

Finally a boy, aged about 10, marched up the man and announced: "You heard the lady. She's pregnant. She needs to siddown. Now move!"

Even then he sat still, whereupon the boy began to kick his shins. "I said move, mother**er!" he remarked, and the man finally stumbled off down the carriage noisily threatening to sue. Connie says it was a very satisfying moment.

How did "Connie" knowing the man wasn't deaf or was injured in some way that required him to sit. Does the fact that she chose to work “right up to the birth” mean she’s entitled to harangue all and sundry for a seat?

AFAIC, you choose pregnancy and can't expect everyone to dance around you like handmaidens facilitating your life choice. Fair enough, I’ve given my seat up in the past, but sometimes I just don’t want to and evidently other people don’t too – is this why she was asking? And if she had to ask presumably it had happened before. If the little darling is so important why go on the tube at all.

I’m disinclined to stand up for pregnant women since in the words of Jimmy Carr, I’d prefer to see a pregnant woman standing than a fat woman in tears.

Do you always give up your seat? Always offer? Who to? Old people, pregnant people, disabled people?"

Hear hear!

i was never offered a seat when i was pregnant but then again at 9 months i only looked about 4 months gone! but it still felt the same as full term! i was on a very busy bus last week and there was a major traffic jam and we were on the bus for over 1 hour and half! i was sat in the luggage rack because it was the only place to sit! a heavily pregnant woman got on the bus and wasn't offered a seat, any other time it wouldn't of been that bad but we were on the bus for ages! after 10 minutes i decided i'd offer my 'seat' for her! only thing i could do! obviously she didn't want to sit in the luggage rack but still no one offered her a seat after i'd asked her as loudly as i could so others would take the hint!!!

Yes, basic good manners to give up a seat/offer a seat to someone who needs it more. I do appreciate being offered a seat, being pregnant at the moment, but wouldn't always take up the offer if I feel fine and the person offering looks like they need it more (elderly, tired commuter, whatever - it's the offer that counts!).

Also, no one's an island. You may be selfishly congratulating yourself on cheating that pregnant woman out of that seat but would you enjoy watching the same thing done to your mother, sister, girlfriend, whatever.

Lastly, when people justify not giving up their seats to pregnant women/ people on crutches etc etc they often try to imply that that person is being selfish by coming onto the tube at all when its busy or that they are selfishly trying to work until the last minute or whatever other excuse people use to tell themselves that the pregnant woman doesn't need to be on the tube. I use the tube for hospital appointments this time round. Last time, financially, I did need to work until quite late on. It doesn't mean I have less right to consideration than any other commuter and believe me, if I had an alternative choice I would take it :).

A chap at work said he once offered and turns out the woman was fat and offended so he stopped looking.
Playing devils advocate here.

I think giving up your seat to a pregnant woman is a choice not an obligation. I don't expect it but am very grateful if i get it and sit on the floor when I'm dizzy. everyone has thier own problems and issues (depression, debt, bereavement, dementia).we can't expect it to be all about us. when i worked three jobs i got most of my sleep on the bus and train. I hardly offer my seat to pregnant women especially at the end of the day when i'm tired. I always offer to old people though. But it's not right. not if you didn't buy my travecard for me.

Also we keep trying to protray that pregnancy is not a disease and pregnant women can work, walk, exercise, achieve and do all sorts like others. they don't need to hide, stop work and be made to feel infirm. we campaign for it. then get treated exactly like the others on the tube and we complain. my brother's take (he though i was being plain lazy being on bed rest).maybe that's why the men don't respond. they are usually clueless.

Like mb, when heavily pregnant (and getting the bus every day to work) I stood up for elderly people, while people in less need of a seat than me pretended they hadn't noticed.

So to answer the OP: what I would like to say to the person who wouldn't give up their seat on the tube...you are an ill mannered oik without an ounce of empathy or compassion, you were clearly dragged rather than brought up, and if there is any justice in the world, one day you will be in need of a seat in similar circumstances and no-one will gve you one.

i think it has a lot to do with the way you were raised.
im sure these people would give up their seat for their preg mother or sister.
i also think it is possibly safer for everyone if the preg lady sits down. your balance if affected, wether you meant to become preg or not, and you are likely to fall on someone during a commute.

I was on the tube and train on the way home from a hospital appointment with DS, I was 33 weeks and in labour, noone offered me a seat, I was huffing and puffing like a good 'un and Dh had to ask someone to let me sit down, she was born 12 hours later.

Pregnancy isn't a disease, correct. Being accompanied by small children isn't a disease. Carrying heavy shopping isn't a disease. But I'd give up my seat to someone trying to manage small children or with loads of heavy shopping or an awkward parcel, because the benefit to them is one heck of a lot greater than the loss to me, and it's the decent thing to do. Unless it were the OP in this case -- then I might decide that I just didn't feel like it...

Hey, I thought I was the only insonmiac left on this board.

I was pregnant and puking and no one offered me anything so I sat on the floor and just kept puking. I wasn't offended or in the least bit bothered. It worries me that some people think it's thier right to get a seat just because you are having a baby that you didn't consult with them about. I thought there was some maternity right provision that allowed pregnant women to commute off peak to avoid the rush hours.

I thought we didn't like people opening doors, pulling out chairs, being called ma'am and all those formerly 'good-mannered' things.

Fine, it is your right as the incubator of a tax payer!!!give up your seats you lazy sad b*stards !!

i do - i like the pulling out of chairs and the opening of doors. men are now in aposition - especially in the workplace - where they are damned if they do and damned if they dont - i personally lose much respect for those that dont.

i work with a truly old fashioned guy married for 40 odd years. opens doors - lets me first in lift - etc etc. i think he's the last person left apart from my sons and my dh.

i think its this twisted version of womens lib thats fucked things right up - that along witha fuck you society - supposing you offered a seat and they looked you up and down and said " no thanks i am perfectly capable - i'm not disabled y' know only pregnant"

i would be taken aback by their rudeness - but i would be happy and contented enough in my soul in my conscience to know absolute - i i did the right thing.

my boss always walks through a door before me. i very much dislike him for that act.

its the same with old people. my sons open the door ( am on a rant now sorry) for some old people who barge through like its their right - they are so very very rude. but i always congratulate them on being nice, good honest, lovely considerate human beings. so many people arn't.

they let adults walk through doors before them and 90% of the time they are very shocked - but i am ever so proud.

my bus trip from hell was the day i went into labour with ds1.nine months gone and the size of a house , i had started to feel strange while shopping so decided to go home.i got on that bus and nobody offered me a seat! i was in labour ffs!!
i always offer my seat to old people/pregnant women.and i make ds sit on my knee on the bus to free up a seat even though he is 4ft 5!!!

manners cost nothing.

I love the good manners thing as well.

whatever happened to the badges you could get on the tube? Mind The Bump or something. I wonder if that would even make a difference.

i agree, its good manners to offer a seat. but if someone had suggested that my dh stand whilst i sat down, then we would've had to say no way.

It's not a right to get a seat, but offering a seat to someone who needs it is polite and considerate -- hence not doing so is impolite and inconsiderate.

I was offered (nay, virtually compelled into) a seat once when I'd just given blood and virtually fainted on the train -- I didn't have a "right to get a seat because I'd given blood that I'd not consulted my fellow-travellers about", but they responded to my evident need. IMO there's too much emphasis on whether or not someone has a "right" to X or Y and not enough on common decency and trying to be helpful to others. A pregnant woman does not have a right to a seat, but anyone who is prepared to just sit back and watch someone suffer disproportionately is a pretty lousy human being IMO.

Now I'm just going to parp and leave before I get carried away...

pregnant women dont usually look like they're suffering. They glow. My fellow pregnant workers look capable and healthy at work and do exercises. How can they be suffering and what do they need a seat more than I do for?

IME, only a person who has been through it can truly understand. If you've ever worked even for a female boss who has never been pregnant you'd know they dont understand. Half the population thinks you put on weight because you've been lazy and greedy in pregnancy and let yourself go. water retention, backache, SPD????? what are those?

The pregnant women in movies run, kick ass, look trim, the celebs look stunning and able. Even we get shocked when hit with the reality of pregnancy niggles. Perception is different from reality.

I'm the lazy one at work who's on aspirin, bed rest, gets sick at the smell of perfume, forthnightly hospital appointments etc.

One of the other ladies goes on about how she doesn't feel any different etc. She worked till a few days to delivery and bragged about good health which is fine. It just gets annoying when everyone compliments her strenght and refer to other lazy women. I can see why they wont give up thier seats or think twice about pregnant women. It's wrong but it's perception.

FFM, some women are blessed with easy pregnancies aren't they?. Whilst heavily pregnant I remember thinking that this must be how it feels to be an elderly person, to be so physically limited, often frustrating and humiliating. I'll never forget how tough the last months were for me and I'll endeavour to extend every consideration to any pregnant women, the elderly or disabled I meet as a result, "life choice" or not.

When I was about 8 months pregnant with DS I was on a busy tram and not one person offered me their seat. I see this happen alot, not just with pregnant women but with elderly people too. I think it is just common courtesy to offer your seat to someone who needs it more than you.
A pregnant women is not ill and standing in itself will do little harm but many forms of public transport jolt about here, there and everywhere and it would be quite easy to have a dangerous fall.

Always stand up & offer my seat to anyone on the tube who looks like they could do with a seat.
During my two pregnancies, where I worked to 38 weeks in each case, I was only offered a seat 8 times in total - during both pregnancies!!!! I also had to go to work on crutches for a while following a serious knee injury & unless I actually hit people with my crutches they wouldn't bother to get up.
When I was about 37 weeks pregnant in 1999, a baking hot summer, and swinging from the strap on a bus one day when no one got up, one woman pushed past my big pregnant tummy & said "If you can't stand the heat, you shouldn't be in the kitchen". If I'd had an ounce of energy or a spare hand, I would have been tempted to hit her!

A respectable businessman (so I thought...) elbowed me out of the way as we got on a central line tube when I was hugely pg.

He got the last seat and smirked at me, honestly.

So when I got offered the seat opposite him, I trod on his foot. Hard. Patent leather loafers. Wanker.

And his tie was stupid.

Agree it's the right thing to offer your seat to whoever - am totally with custardo and no wonder she's proud of her lads.

However, I'm a bit puzzled by why a few of you think it's wrong to ask to sit down. If you are polite about it, smile, and you don't ask a 90 year old or something, surely it's better to ask nicely than to stand there, uncomfortable, and raise your blood pressure by seething and staring?

And if the person you ask is ignorant enough to ignore you like the guy in the original story, continuing very nicely in a sing-song voice normally shames them or the people sitting nearby into action, I think. If, as the OP suggested, he was ill or infirm himself in some way, he only had to explain...

I was offered a seat on the tube the other day for the first time, by a young woman. I'm six months pg and I'm not on public transport much, thankfully. I did protest and say I was only going two stops but she was lovely and insisted, saying she would feel uncomfortable watching me stand. I don't think it's anything to do with choices and rights: as others have said, it's just good manners to give up your seat to someone who looks like they might need it more than you, whether pregnant, elderly, disabled, struggling with kids, or even just looking pissed off and knackered! I certainly don't expect it, but it is really appreciated when I am offered a seat. If I was feeling really dizzy/unwell/exhausted/sick while at any stage of pregnancy I might even ask if anyone would mind if I sat down, though certainly not demand it.
Pinchy