Controversial!!! Have/do you drink alcohol in pregnancy?

[DanniiH]

Hi mummies.

Just wanting to get some opinions from real people not a regulatory body.

Personally I don't see the harm in having a glass of wine when pregnant but guidelines say to have none. I'm sure we've all heard people say my mum drank lots and I turned out fine and this is usually true I'm sure. With my son I drank a small glass of wine most nights, he is 3 and scarily bright so I've obviously caused him no harm. I'm pregnant again and whilst I won't drink every night I will have one if I fancy it.

Anyone else agree with this?
Anyone know of anyone where moderate drinking has caused harm to a child?

Hmm, some interesting points. Pinkbananabread - even though I can see why sperm quality would have an impact on fetal health, surely the 9 months of the fetus growing inside the woman will have a much more important impact on fetal health? That being the case, it's no surprise that a whole lot more effort goes into what happens to pg women than to fathers.

There is no good evidence that one glass of champers in 9 months is going to hurt anyone. But the study linked to above showed that there is a measurable effect on IQ when as little as one unit a week is consumed! (effect is small - I don't want to overstate this). This counts as light drinking, not even moderate in my books. So it's not true that light drinking leads to NO HARM AT ALL.

The rights of the fetus vs rights of the mother is an interesting question. Thankfully, most of us on here don't live in Ireland where this is sadly something more of a stark and difficult issue. I think both parties have rights, just not the same rights. No one on this board is suggesting taking rights from one party to give to the other (not even sure this sort of exchange is always the case either). And even where this is the case, is it always so very important? The women can chose to sacrifice her wine habit, the fetus has no choice in whether it imbibes alcohol or not. No long term harm to mum whether she drinks or not, possible long term harm to fetus i.e. for a little pain the other party could have a lot to gain.

For those of us who are not judgemental when we see a pg women swigging a bottle of beer, do we feel the same indifference when we see the women with a fag? Personally, I have a much bigger reaction when I see a women smoking, though this is in fact illogical - drinking is much more potentially dangerous than smoking.

What SolidGoldBrass said.

And Zoe Williams Completely Unscientific Advice

mawgatron - I know you weren't singling me out but just wanted to explain my thinking. I used to work in a bar so I'm thinking from perspective of how many people literally had no idea what they could drink and not go over the legal driving limit. Obviously the blood alcohol limit doesn't handily transfer into alcohol units but it was staggering how many people didn't realise the difference between a large or a small glass of wine, a pint or a bottle of beer etc.

I also work with teen mums now, many of whom struggle with literacy issues, and they literally can't read the booklets given to them by GPs and only have v preachy social workers who tell them they can't drink at all, have to give up smoking etc. So they think sod that, I'm going to drink while I'm pg, it's what my friends do etc.One told me she'd headrd that drinking alcopops was better than vodka and redbull, which of course is true in terms of strength so she thought she'd get just one WKD and take it to a party. But her 'one' WKD was one of the supersize bottles and she genuinely didn't really grasp the difference. But posters / ad campaign which visually shows the difference would, imho, make a difference to illustrating what is actually a 'moderate' amount of alcohol and what adds up to a whopping 5 units in one glass. And if it helps some people keep track on their alcohol consumption while pg then I'd say it can't hurt.

Interesting question, LeBFG.

I do not smoke, and have never smoked, and detest smoking. So when I see a pg woman smoking I feel a visceral revulsion. My DM was a chain smoker when she was pg, and I have chronic asthma, which has nearly killed me several times. I do lay that at her door. [musing.. although this was the late 60s and people did not know about it then].

I do enjoy a drink occasionally, yet when I see a pg woman enjoying a small glass of something I am blase.

So, I admit freely that I am being illogical. I need to think about that a bit more.

LeBFG - I'm not saying that the 9m of being inside the mother aren't important, but the sperm provides half of the foetus' genetic make-up and sets into motion some things about the foetus which cannot be changed. The 9m of growing is working with the basic genetic structure of the foetus: it cannot alter any fundamental flaws.

So I don't think the importance of the sperm's health can be underestimated.

I would like to see evidence that drinking in pregnancy is more harmful than smoking. I would have thought that, since when you breathe in smoke you also breathe in carbon monoxide, which binds with haemoglobin in the blood in place of oxygen, and the foetus gets it's oxygen from your blood supply, breathing CO effectively starves it of oxygen. Say you smoke twenty a day, three minutes a cigarette, that's an hour a day that the foetus is getting less oxygen that it should be, hence why smoking leads to low birth weight. And that's not to mention all the other nasty stuff in cigarettes and their potential side effects for baby.

Sperm health is important yes - more for not passing on genetic nasties. But mum swithes on genes when pregnant. Her diet also plays a huge part in health. It is not misogynistic to say that the choices of the mum matter far more than the dad.

i had a the odd glass of wine during my pregnancy, probably once a week, i'd have 2-3 small glasses watered down with tonic water...even when mad at my brother's wedding (i was 7mnths at the time) and had a glass of champagne!!
i'm a great great believer in everything in moderation....obv i don't advocate drinking loads all the time, but i don't think the odd little tipple now and again will do any harm at all x

ooopwent mad that was meant to be, although i probably was mad at my brothers wedding lol x

I took that stance that if there was even the slightest risk to my baby, that I wouldn't, so I didn't .

When I was pregnant with DD1 and DD2, the advice was one to two drinks a week was ok. And it was! So that's what I'd stick to again if I had another baby.

Expat I didn't know that (about switching on the genes). Very interesting.

I wasn't trying to make out that it's unfair that the blame/responsibility isn't 50:50. More that it's incorrect to assume that living the life of a teetotal saint whilst pregnant isn't necessarily enough to make up for harmful habits prior to pregnancy: that a foetus' health isn't only determined by the 38-odd weeks it spends in the uterus.

lebfg large amounts of a lot of things are a toxin eg caffeine ... I'm talking 125/175ml wine with a meal or half an ale.

just to back up my views 2006 studies by British journal of obstetrics and gynaecology concluded there was no convincing evidence of adverse effects of pre-natal alcohol exposure at low to moderate levels (moderate defined as 10.5 units per week- obviously not all at the same time). if you like wine I think there is nothing wrong with having a small glass here and there ... same as would be if you like chocolate have a couple of bars a week as a treat. completely deniying yourself (on what basis) will just make the 10 months longer!

julesjules thanks for bringing up zoe Williams again highly recommend her book ... debunks ALOT of nonsense on this topic breastfeeding and gf

I didn't, but I was taking medication throughout and figured one less 'drug' for DD to be exposed to could only be a good thing. I also don't drink much anyway so it wasn't a big hardship.

What is gf zcos?

Pink addicts who clean up their act when pregnant can have beautiful healthy babies. As I understand it what matters most is the DNA integrity of the egg and its energy. I think an unhealthy life can have a negative impact on your fertility perhaps but on the health of the baby if you change when pregnant? I don't know by the way. Just putting it out there.

My friend is a MW and did her dissertation (or whatever it is) on foetal alcohol syndrome. She said that it can present when mothers have only had a little during pregnancy - I think it's a 'depends on the person' type thing.

The reality for me was avoiding until third trimester and only drinking then when there was a reason to. I did drink when he was floating in the tubes but we had a honeymoon baby and I didn't want to not have the works at dinnertime at our nice hotel! Once I realised we might actually have succeeded I stopped (so at about 1-2 weeks).

Getting a bit tipsy (two champagne flutes?) I am fairly sure is part of the reason I went into labour...

I don't suppose she'd like to share the dissertation? It would be really interesting.

I didn't drink a drop during any of my pregnancies. Yes, there's no evidence that small amounts of alcohol can cause any harm but I personally didn't want to risk it, and it certainly didn't do any harm to stop. That doesn't mean I'd tell anyone else to do as I did, you have to do what you feel is right and comfortable with.

However, my DS was born with a condition which required medical treatment and when such a thing happens, all parents ask Why? Why me? At least I had the comfort of knowing I hadn't "caused" it to happen by drinking alcohol, and didn't torture myself with "what if I hadn't?" thoughts. On the other hand, it also proves that things happen during pregnancy whether you drink alcohol or not...my not drinking didn't prevent a problem occuring either...

zcos - lots of things are toxins, that's why there are recommended limits even to caffeine consumption. The study you refer to was older than this new paper. This new piece of research (only one paper mind) genuinely surprised me. I really didn't think such a small amount of alcohol could have any effect whatsoever....but it does.

Interesting also people's definition of moderate or light drinking. On another thread someone was saying that one unit a week was a lot. She drank 3/4 units a year so 1u week was a lot. I really agree that units are hard to assess. I still get confused about what a small glass of wine is and which beers are lighter etc. I don't think it's patronising at all to suggest this is difficult to assess.

Smoking reduces O2 so fetus tissues grow just as well, they are just smaller - lots of the toxins in cigarettes do not pass the placenta. Alcohol damages cells and DNA however so even small amounts can be potenially damaging to delicate developing tissues.

expatal Gina Ford

Lebfg that's exactly what I was saying lots of things are toxins...
I gave up coffee completely and don't eat fish (because of the mercury)

I don't understand zcos, are you comparing drinking a coffee with a glass of wine?

Thinking about this more, I'm sure I remember lots of threads with smoking mums trying to give up and everyone saying they smoked their last fag as soon as they had the BFP etc. Advice quickly becoming judgemental - "think of your unborn child, how can you carry on smoking?" etc. Is this simply because, as a rather middle-class forum, drinking is more socially acceptable to us than smoking? So we justify ourselves - "I don't smoke, eat fish or pate but I don't see the harm in a few glasses of wine a week - give me a break!".

LeBFG is completely correct