Controversial!!! Have/do you drink alcohol in pregnancy?

[DanniiH]

Hi mummies.

Just wanting to get some opinions from real people not a regulatory body.

Personally I don't see the harm in having a glass of wine when pregnant but guidelines say to have none. I'm sure we've all heard people say my mum drank lots and I turned out fine and this is usually true I'm sure. With my son I drank a small glass of wine most nights, he is 3 and scarily bright so I've obviously caused him no harm. I'm pregnant again and whilst I won't drink every night I will have one if I fancy it.

Anyone else agree with this?
Anyone know of anyone where moderate drinking has caused harm to a child?

I am a card carrying Cat Obsessed Buckethead too. (love that phrase!). had the same 'advice' as you catlady. I was told by my MW that anyone who keeps cats has been exposed to toxo-whatsits and will be immune, which made me feel alot better.

Also. on the cat nets... i found they were quite flimsy and fell in, so DH constructed a kind of frame to fit over the moses basket (and later the cot) which he attached the cat net to. That worked well. And - goes to show you can never please some people.... a friend who had been loudest in telling us about how cats suffocated babies rang me one night in tears- literally TEARS as she said we were keeping DS in a 'cage' because of the cat net cover thing. Um right.... It kept him safe, as one of our cats (now sadly deceased- although that is not related;) ) really did love snuggling up on him if we did not catch her.

Sorry for hijack OP> :)

Okay, I agree with SGB's second post, not so much her first. As someone else pointed out, poverty really should not be a factor. There are plenty of less well-off people, including mothers on benefits and teenage mothers, who choose to educate themselves and make informed decisions for the good of themselves and their children, just as their are plenty of affluent people who are either ignorant or couldn't care less.

I do think the government likes to lay a lot of blame for these problems at the door of poverty, though. Hence the Healthy Start vouchers, the cheap vitamins schemes, etc. Of course if you're on a low income, fresh food and supplements can be a big expense, but I find that the way they're explained often implies that people on a low income or from poorer areas either wouldn't know that these things are important, or wouldn't bother with them unless they were given to them, which simply isn't true.

There are guidelines in place with regards to drinking in pregnancy (and smoking, eating undercooked food, etc), to make it easier for people to make good decisions. After all, if all pregnant women completely abstained from risky behaviour, there would be no ill effects, but if there were no guidelines and women continued to drink heavily and smoke and eat undercooked meat, then there would more than likely be problems in at least some of their children. If you really want to go against these guidelines, the responsibility is yours to make sure you know what you're doing and weigh up the risks against the benefits.

As an extention of misinformation, the cat:toxo thing winds me up no end. This is an example where they find toxo in cats and toxo in women and decide the two are inevitably linked. In France, where toxo incidence is much higher, real dramatic reductions in infection rates during pg have been achieved through prenatal advice on eating and has ziltch to do with cats. French women love underdone lamb, steak and piles of charcuterie. As another example of misinformation, your MW Egusta was talking crap. I come from a cat family, have always kept cats and kittens, all have been outdoor cats and I've never had toxo. I also know many women in France with the same story so I know I'm not a one-off.

I was very fortunate as even before I knew I was pregnant, the smell and taste of wine changed, couldn't drink the stuff and I love my wine. If that doesn't happen for you then just take in moderation, but I guess its difficult to get the facts about safe limits.

LeBFG have you been tested for toxoplasmosis? That's quite interesting, because my midwife told me the same thing. In normal healthy adults, it doesn't have any symptoms, so you wouldn't know if you'd had it without a blood test for the antibodies.

Yes, I have been tested as I live in France. It's a pain actually - all the way through this and the last pg I've had monthly blood tests - always come back negative. I wanted to dig my heels in and refuse this time round but was put under much pressure by gynae to do it .

Oh, that's a bit scary then! I was told that most people catch it in childhood by playing in soil, and if they don't, they'll get it from soil on fruit and veg or undercooked meat, and if you keep cats it's virtually guaranteed. I insisted on being tested for it at my first prenatal appointment because I had nobody to help me with the cat litter and wanted to make sure, but the MW's attitude was that it was pretty much a given that I'd have it, so I can imagine most women don't bother being tested!

I was told the exact same thing as catlady! I was also told that the Uk never ever tests for it.... and I could not even ask for it as it was not done here.
[wondering what other bits of crap I have been fed]

Well, yes. This just illustrates to me the ignorance floating around. But you don't need to worry - just wash/peel raw veg and eat well cooked meats. IMO if you've spent the last x years not getting infected, then it's pretty highly unlikely you'll catch it in the 9 months you are pg when you're taking extra care. Hence why I think monthly bood tests are a waste of time and money (and add a monthly stress when the results arrive in the letterbox).

Egusta they were reluctant to test me, but I'd looked it up before the appointment and I knew they could do it -they just dont like to. And my MW asked if I have cats when she was going through all the foods I should avoid and stuff like that, so I asked then, after telling her that I did and would have to carry on cleaning up after them. She tried to tell me there was no point and they don't test for it, but she'd just been telling me about the risks of miscarriage and stillbirth associated with it so she'd backed herself into a bit of a corner

But as BFG said, just be extra vigilant about washing and cooking your food, and washing your hands, and you should be fine.

Good for you catlady for standing your ground!

It is funny about the various dictates. I craved ham sandwiches when I was pg, and never gave it a thought. My cousin in Australia was told to avoid all deli meats.

[not to mention that my own DM - who was a nurse ffs told me that babies should be having weak ribena from birth... ]

I've always had cats and tested negative for toxo in the I first trimester. Knew about the kitty litter tray, did not know I shouldn't be feeding mine.

Mixxy I've never heard anything about not feeding them either, but I suppose if you wash their bowls after they've eaten, they could (possibly) have the parasite on from the cat's saliva, from licking their arse or soil off their fur or something. It's definitely a long shot lol, I wouldn't worry too much about it

Love the way you're on about the womans right to drink if she wants to, but I am more concerned about the unborn child's right to not be exposed to a dangerous toxin that its liver is unable to process! But maybe that's just me...

I mostly agree with SGB. Of course I don't think the patriarchy is making up risks to suppress women, but I do think there's a worrying trend regarding society's policing and surveillance of pregnant women. I've heard it referred to as the "fetalisation of pregnancy" - increasingly we seem to be elevating the rights of the fetus to be free of any risk above the rights of the mother to make her own choices as a person. I am thinking of writing my dissertation for my midwifery degree on this topic. But don't listen to me, I freely admit to being a raging feminist...

i would say "don't drink anything" but i would not judge someone who decided to have the occassional very small amount
I didn't for either of my pregnancies and 9 months did not feel like too long to wait
it is good training for when you are up all night with crying babies after they are born, adding too much alcohol to the physical demands of night (and daytime) breast feeding would have been (and was) too much for me anyway so being used to being dry for those early days with both babies was actually a real bonus
but as i say everyone is different and if it does not damage your baby then horses for courses

Everybody processes and digests alcohol differently. None of us can say what's safe for anyone else or take someone else's word that it's fine for us.
I had quite a few Christmas drinks before my test and didn't worry at all. However, I undercooked some pork and am still losing sleep over it weeks later. I am tested for toxo monthly too. Also CMV.

When all the evidence available to date seems to show that small amounts of alcohol occasionally do NO HARM AT ALL then that's the advice that should be given to women. Not 'If you have even a sip of sherry your baby will die and have brain damage and everyone will hate you for being a selfish cow.'

And yes, I do think a woman's right to choose whether or not to drink is more important than a foetus. Because a woman is a person and has rights, a foetus is not yet a person and therefore does not have rights. The only way foetuses can be given rights is for rights to be taken from women, and that is not acceptable.

How about taking into account the alcohol the mother AND the father drank before getting pregnant...? Pretty sure that will have affected the quality of egg and sperm, but obviously it's all about judging the mother..

How many of us were so abstemious in the months prior to getting pregnant when the gametes were developing...? Didn't think so.

A science question if you please: I thought embryos took their nourishment from the yolk prior to 8 or 9 weeks pregnancy (6-7 weeks gestation) when they become fetuses and the whole placenta thing happens. Doesn't that mean that any alchohol you consume prior to that cannot have been passed to them?

I'm not suggesting it's a good idea to spend the first 8 weeks getting pissed btw.

As an aside, someone mentioned sushi - was it Bue ? I think the risk there is with the rice and with the fact that it is a chilled, prepared product (so a listeria risk, like bagged salad and packet sarnies) rather than the fish parasite.

although i doubt the odd drink is harmful i dont drink when pregnant,i rarely drink at all really though so its not hard for me.

i prefer to only put things into my body which are good for me and the baby,so just because somethings not harmful doesnt mean its beneficial.

solid gold brass

do you really see drinking as a right though?i see the baby as more important.

Maybe there should be a MN campaign to make it clearer how many units of alcohol are in a drink.

I still think that some people are being preachy, if I choose to have a glass of wine, once a week, then that is my choice. I am an adult, who seems to have spent the majority of my 21 weeks of pregnancy researching what I can and can't do, in order to make informed choices.I think it is a little patronising to suggest that women who choose to have the odd drink (which does not exceed nhs guidance) do not think their unborn child is important! My first baby is the most important thing in my life, and my choice to have a small glass of wine (or own cats, ride my bicycle to work, drink 4 cups of tea in a day or eat the occasional soft boiled egg) does not change that!
Mumsnet is supposed to be non judgmental, and the majority of people on here are very supportive. However, there are some overly emotive people on here who want to put others on a guilt trip for the choices that they have legitimately made about their own pregnancy! Those people need to accept that individuals have the right to behave in whatever way is right for them. Stop judging ladies!!

Oh, and it is also a little patronising to suggest that people don't know what a small glass is...not jumping on you specifically little miss, but lots of people have made this point and I just wanted to put that out there