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Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

My Ob/Gyn admitted is is indeed true that most female Ob/Gyns opt for elective c setcion!

87 replies

cherrysodalover · 08/10/2011 00:55

So having had a c section first time round(baby over 10 pounds- small pelvic opening) I assumed I would automatically get a c section.
Now I can have one if I want but am also being offered normal delivery as an option-we can scan to see how big baby is in the days pre due date- this can be 1 pound out though.
So I asked my female Ob/Gyn whether it is true that most Ob/Gyn's choose elective c sections and she admitted yes as do most urologists.
I asked her why she thought they did this knowing the slow recovery time and she said it is as they see what happens when things go wrong and so weigh up the disadvantages of a planned c section against this possible outcome which of course is far worse than the week of healing after major surgery- she also mentioned your pelvic muscles are less likely to be badly damaged by a c section.

I have to say it kind of shocked me- the women involved in helping people post birth who have problems choose surgery over natural.

It made me think maybe the midwives don't see this which is why so many are so anti c section- they may see women with pereneums damaged but they do not deal with them going back sometimes for many years trying to get the issues caused by this resolved?

And mmm yes it is making me sway towards having a second c section.
Anyway it really is food for thought isn't it?

OP posts:
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mintpurple · 10/10/2011 19:42

kickingking - I know its not necessarily fair but I suppose it would be considered to be one of the perks of the job!

In the hospital where I work, its probably about 30% ob/gyn doctors who have a c/s, so about the hospital average, and mostly for legit reasons actually.

Haven't heard of a midwife in years having a planned c/s without a good reason, at least half will plan for a homebirth.

I remember one midwife I worked with years ago had an elective c/s as she didn't want to go through labour, and a few years later she was back for a VBAC as she felt she had missed out:)

titan · 10/10/2011 19:44

Mist doctors I know have had elcs. Not just obstetricians. I think it's because we see the worst outcomes for both the mother and the baby when a vaginal birth goes wrong. Obviously that's the minority but they stick in your mind. And overall Caesarian seems safer for the baby and avoids lots of the complications you can get with a VB. And the patient/doctor gets to feel in control. People seem to get a c/s if they make a fuss about it. I do have one friend who was made to see a maternity counsellor when she requested an elcs. She stuck to her guns and got what she wanted!

mrsrvc · 10/10/2011 19:55

I guess its for the same reasons as with the Obstetricians, but when my first DS was in NICU after a birth accident all of the neonatologists I spoke to would also prefer to have a C-Section...

quietlyafraid · 10/10/2011 20:14

Just as a side point, when I've mentioned electives to my sister in law (who is a doctor) she pointed out the professional side of things. Whilst she is used to medical things being normal, its quite different to be the patient. Add to that the fact you are likely to be treated by your colleagues, it adds another dimension to the package. How many women would like to go through childbirth and then go back to work with all the people who delivered your baby and know all the gory details?! She said she felt it would be extremely awkward even though it wasn't her department.

And that also would cover midwives opting for homebirths over hospital births too.

Both groups want to be in control of their situation and protect their dignity as much as possible.

cherrysodalover · 10/10/2011 23:50

Very interesting points everyone and thanks for informing me further quietlyafraid.

Iggly-your point
"I believe that our bodies are designed to give birth provided there are no complicating factors and the environment in which a woman gives birth is right for her. Culturally we set ourselves up to fail with unrealistic images of failure and underplay the fact that most women are fine giving birth vaginally. "

I guess it does hinge on our beliefs and I actually believe that the fact 23% of women which is nearly 1 in 4 end up with a c section suggests that the body is not as well designed to give birth as we might assume and then let's include the women who have a vb but have medical problems for years afterwards- I don't know that percent but I have seen the threads here on mumsnet so have an idea it is not as rare as those women must wish it was.
What we are left with is that maybe two thirds( maybe less) of women seem to find that the design of their bodies facilitates a natural and straightforward birth so you have a 2 in 3 chance that your birth will not cause damage or death to your child or yourself.
Now for an optimist I find those odds pretty unsettling and of course if you are one of the women( or midwives)who is in the two thirds you will naturally think the way you gave birth is the best way for most women but the facts are hard to deny.
I think doctors see that other third of women either during a c section or post natally in their clinics and this influences them

I do have hispanic and afro american friends( who all have health insurance) but they are not amongst the 100's of thousand of illegal immigrants that the US health system does have to deal with when they turn up to give birth with no health insurance and it is true that many will therefore not have had any pre natal care which will sadly affect the outcome.It is unfair to blame this on the US system when people have entered a country illegally.

I have learnt since moving here that in fact there are ways of getting free medical care if you really need it if you appeal to the hospital and explain your circumstances- there are many pro bono docs and organisations- people are not left to die on the street as the media would leave you to believe.
Anyway I suppose I just want to counter the hsyterical reaction i encountered in more than one UK midwife when i revealed i would give birth in the states- they certainly thought their care as midwives would be vastly superior to the 'medicalised' care I would get from the Ob/Gyn here in the States.In the end I had the most wonderful experience and as I said this is not what the majority of my friends report of their midwife led experiences in the UK-two gave birth at home as the midwife insisted on the phone they had a way to go yet...without actually checking them.So it seems it is not just the US midwives on One Born Every Minute who are sitting munching their biscuits whilst women labour away- i could not have asked for more gentle, caring and kind nurses- it was like being looked after by my own mum for 4 days.
What can I say I love the US maternity provision.I loved not having to fight for an emergency c section.I loved my husband rooming in with me in my clean en suite private room.I loved not having to ring the bell but instead being offered anything before I could even think I needed it. They really excel at caring for people here and I applaud it.

OP posts:
LAbaby · 11/10/2011 04:52

A bit off topic, but I had my baby in the US three months ago, having moved here while pregnant. I just want to share my story as I was worried about giving birth here as all my friends at home told me I would be pushed to have a c-section etc. I had also been left in horror by the american version of one born every minute! In fact I found that money talks and I could have whatever kind of birth I wanted. I chose to have my baby in the midwife unit, in a birthing pool, with no epidural, but i could equally have chosen to schedule a c-section.
As it turned out the placenta partially detached and my sons heartbeat dropped dramatically, while i lost a lot of blood. A doctor took over and ventouse delivered my son in less than a minute. It was scary but I can't fault my medical care. It's a misconception that midwife led labour/birth isn't an option here, at least in LA - I imagine it is different elsewhere. Post birth my boyfriend stayed with us in our private room for two days while we got to know our new son, with a nurse at the press of a button if we needed her - they soon had him latched on. The food was great too,the chef rang me to disuse how they could cater to my vegan diet.
Despite the terror when things went wrong i found birth a very empowering experience, and I felt fully in control of what was happening to me at every moment. I also know people here who scheduled their c-section or induction and had no interest in a natural birth - that is what they wanted and their choice.
Having said all that, I still think the nhs is a far better system as everyone gets a decent system of care, rather than the people who can afford it getting exceptional care, and the poor getting crap care.
Sorry for rambling.

Iggly · 11/10/2011 06:32

Cherry you're not going to change my mind on this - I don't think our bodies are incapable, hence the reason for the level of c-sections. That's a sad way to think. But as you say that's your belief so each to their own.

goodnightmoon · 11/10/2011 07:47

on balance, I'd say I've heard far more positive stories of US births than of UK births. The caeserian rate there is slightly higher, at 30% vs. UK's 25% (24.8% in 2009-10: NHS), but at least half of the US ones are planned, elective ones while the UK's are far more likely to be emergency. This in itself indicates the UK system has major flaws, that women in high risk groups are regularly encouraged to give VB, when their chances of ending up with an emergency c-section must be at least 50:50. (An assumption, I have nothing to back up that particular statistic.) Also, about 8% of VBs in this country involve an episiotomy (and ventouse or forceps). So we have about one-third of births requiring intervention - not exactly a rousing endorsement of midwife-led care.

quietlyafraid · 11/10/2011 08:05

I've talked about this elsewhere as this is something close to my heart, but a recent swedish study has shown that women with an extreme fear of childbirth have a significantly raised risk of needing intervention. Its a very interesting study as it has been implications for a number of areas within maternity care and how fear is dealt with and suggests it carries a risk. It means that your beliefs and your mental state of mind have a significant baring on the type of birth you can expect. (so by that token it would also suggest that the pro-natural birth thing really does have benefits for some people).

I've two links with a short summary of the study (one from Time so has a US tilt to it and one written for Boots web by the BMJ) which highlight what it found.

healthland.time.com/2011/09/23/women-who-are-terrified-of-childbirth-are-more-likely-to-have-c-sections/

www.webmd.boots.com/pregnancy/news/20110923/too-scared-to-push-fear-of-childbirth-increases-caesarean-rates

So when you look at the 1/3 of women statistic, I guess it would depend more on whether you were a glass half full person or a glass half empty person.

Either way, I think cultural attitudes and your personal beliefs are a very powerful force and one that isn't being valued highly enough. I certainly can not begrudge any female ob for wanting an elective for this reason, even if there are technically no medical reasons behind it.

goodnightmoon · 11/10/2011 08:16

interesting conclusion. It wouldn't surprise me at all if my mantra before and during labour - "I can't do this" had something to do with my total failure to help get the baby out. (was epidural'd up to the chest by the end and baby came via forceps)

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 11/10/2011 10:08

would also explain the huge discrepancy between cs stats (2% ina may gaskin vs almost 30% US). Cherry i'm with iggly. I do not believe we are physically incapable. Mentaly maybe, but not physicaly.

(a complete tangent but re "people not being to die on the streets" in the us. Well one of the issues i have with the states is that i almost saw this happen. I saw a man who could not walk dragged from a wheelchair in a hospital, pulled across the floor with his pants round his ankles. He stank and was clearly incapable of looking afte r himself. When i left the hospital later he was sat in the snow by the door.

KellyKettle · 11/10/2011 10:31

"Mentaly maybe, but not physicaly" - yy, totally agree with this Moonface

Has anyone seen the trailer and videos for One World Birth?

One of the people on the video actually says that women just don't know that they can give birth (Ina May is on there actually).

I had a conversation with an obstetrician once about how he believed women could no longer give birth since we became bipedal. I strongly disagree, Ina May's Farm is an excellent example.

Of course, there will always be women and babies that need help and I am thankful to live in a time and place where that help is available to me and my babies.

My own experience is that during my first pregnancy, I did hypnobirthing. Totally believed in my ability to give birth but DD turned posterior 4 weeks before she was born. All my friends who'd had OP babies had ended up with forceps & 3rd degree tears or EMCS. I believed that intervention was inevitable more than I believed I could still give birth on my own.

My worst fear was a 3rd degree tear (googled it at 38 weeks and almost cried with the fear of it). 3rd degree tear was exactly what I ended up with but I can see how my own panic from the first contraction contributed towards that outcome (not that it was completely me - lack of support in hospital, pushed to labour to a timetable etc).

cherrysodalover · 11/10/2011 15:46

Iggly,Kelly Moonface-I do hear the passion in your positions and I am all for vaginal delivery when it is possible for a woman but I really think the facts speak for themselves.Some women's bodies seem to be better suited to giving birth than others and some babies are smaller than others.Women's bodies are very different and births do not all go in the same way and you only have to look at mortality rates in countries where intervention is not even an option, to see that we are not in the arena of belief when it comes to deciding whether it is a belief or a fact that"All women's bodies are designed for birth and it is a natural process."

The belief or attitude that you seem to hold according to your posts is exactly what I find is potentially dangerous when it is held by medical professionals so I can only hope none of you are midwives.It is the attitude I sensed in some of the midwives I have encountered in the UK where there is this kind of blanket denial amongst some midwives that medical intervention is sometimes essential- as if they know better than the doctors.Arrogance in the supremacy of your belief, that is dangerous when two lives are at stake.

Fair enough if it is just your belief from your own successful intervention free birth experience- you know no other so you cannot be blamed for holding such a global view.I just hope your beliefs do not put any women at risk or cause them to feel inadequate when they are unable to give birth naturally- as I hear that some women do.I felt utterly empowered by my c section in the US since I was given the choice all along and allowed to push for a long time before it became obvious no progress was occurring.I imagine you would tell me if I could just have believed I could do it I could have pushed my 10 pounder out of my narrower than average pelvic opening.Silly me and all the other women who require intervention.

I believe it is somewhat patronising as well as naive to suggest that the only reason some women cannot give birth is due to their mental attitude rather than being physically incapable because of whatever physical factors occur at the point of birth.
I guess this means that you are suggesting that all the interventions that occur are in 47%( I think is the figure) of the cases totally avoidable if only the women could have believed in themselves.
I guess the poor girls in that Ethiopian clinic ripped from vagina to anus through birth and ostracised for the rest of their lives due to no surgical post natal service, could have avoided such a fate if only they had read Ina May and had more belief in themselves.

As I said of course you are entitled to your beliefs but I really get the sense that actually that kind of dogmatic approach is endemic within maternal services in the UK and maybe that is why I hear so many horror stories of people having awful disempowering births with midwives thinking they know better than the mother.I suppose I find that lack of intelligence in the approach of a human who has another human's life in their hands very disappointing.

Good for you that your experience has given you such a rosy view of how natural birth is- i think if you saw some of the medical consequences of births that do not follow in line with your beliefs, your dogmatism may well be tempered.I was shocked as a teacher how many students passed through who had some form of palsy-totally avoidable if a c section had been performed without delay. Beliefs are very powerful forces and can be dangerous in many contexts.

OP posts:
Iggly · 11/10/2011 16:07

Where are the facts that point to c-sections being safer?

Where are the facts that most women will suffer incontinence from vaginal birth alone? Pregnancy also puts a huge strain on your pelvic floor before you even get to giving birth.

10% of mums end up with third or fourth degree tears - which are the ones that are most damaging. So please tell me how that equates to the majority of VB's being dangerous?

Nowhere have I said that VBs should be intervention free - what madness. What I do say is that assumptions like yours (ie that our bodies are bascally inadequate) lead to interventions which, in themselves, damage women (eg third and fourth degree tears can be caused by forceps, induction and poor birth positioning).

Women need medically professionals who are experienced in the whole labour process from start to finish - they don't get this. MWs wander in and out. Consultant generally deal with things when they are high risk (ie I saw a consultant once I was labelled "high risk" but not before). Knowledge about how our minds and bodies react during labour is being lost. That is scary.

And you don't actually know what happened during my labour. I actually suffered a third degree tear and lost nearly a litre of blood. Do I blame my body for being inadequate? Er no. Would I have a c-section with hindsight? No. I've been offered a c-section this time around. I know the risks and thought no way, unless an emergency. A good friend of mine had two c-sections and has ended up with scar tissue so bad that she has been told that she risks rupturing her uterus if she has any more kids. And she'd like more.

starkadder · 11/10/2011 17:18

I think in some ways it is a matter of expectations. I had DS in Spain, where it is also all very medicalised (epidurals, stirrups, no such thing as home/water birth, no TENS machines, etc etc). I didn't mind because I didn't really know any different (this was before my MN addiction).

When I came back to the UK, I was really shocked by how many women seemed to feel that they had somehow "failed" because of not having a "natural" birth. "Natural" also, in the UK, seems to mean no intervention whatsoever - no epidural, no forceps, etc. I think this is one reason why so many women here are traumatised and unhappy after their babies are born - because they had unrealistic hopes of "natural" births and when these were not possible, felt that their own bodies, and the NHS system, had failed them. There's a gap between what people are told in NCT classes and what the reality is. Natural home births are probably brilliant - but it just isn't possible for every birth to be like that.

KellyKettle · 11/10/2011 17:41

cherry did you miss the part where I said there will always be women and babies who require intervention and I am glad to have that available?

No I am not a midwife but I certainly hope that I don't meet one with your attitude either or I'm likely to need a CS in 3 weeks time.

KellyKettle · 11/10/2011 17:44

My friend had 2 CS, no vaginal births and is incontinent of faeces so not exclusive to vaginal birth and urinary incontinence is as likely in women who have delivered via CS and VB. I have a link but am on my phone so can't search right now.

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 12/10/2011 14:32

And to paraphrase you cherry, good for you that your experience has given you a rosy view of what cs's are like.

thejaffacakesareonme · 12/10/2011 18:45

As I understand it, there are risks involved with both an ELCS and a vaginal birth. The risks involved in an ELCS are more loaded onto the mother than the baby. Although there is a chance that the baby may have some difficulty breathing immediately after birth with a c-section these breathing problems are usually sorted out pretty easily. The chances of having a baby who is deprived of oxygen during the birth process are much reduced compared with a vaginal birth. On the other hand, there are risks for the mother - excessive bleeding during and after the operation, painful adhesions afterwards, problems with the wound / infection. I don't think either type of delivery is necessarily problem free. I can see though why so many obstetricians may opt for a c section.

Before anyone attacks me - I've had two c sections and am pregnant at the moment. This baby will almost certainly be born by c section, but at least I know the risks I'm facing. I know there are also risks associated with vaginal birth but due to circumstances have never had to look too much into them.

quietlyafraid · 12/10/2011 19:40

Ok, There isn't conclusive evidence that c-sections are better. But then I'd argue the point that there isn't conclusive evidence that v births are better either. I think the deciding factor is the individual concerned and what is best for them. This is the point that everyone seems to forget in this argument.

With regard to the comments about no longer being able to psychically give birth v mentally, i'd argue two ways on this. Firstly, there are demographic changes that do make it more difficult for some women to give birth naturally. Firstly there is age, secondly there is obesity, thirdly birth weights are increasing and fourthly there is a a quirk due to populations mixing that hadn't previously - the is a study showing that asian women with a caucasian male partner are 3% more likely to need a c-section - the conclusion being due to the differences in pelvis size in their genetics. I do think there is every reason to believe that, scientifically, there is a strong chance that it more difficult for SOME women to give birth naturally than in the past. It may only be a small number but all of the above make a difference.

Secondly I would argue that the mental side of thing is a valid issue here. If women are more afraid, that is a natural reaction - a psychical one. Its isn't their fault and I strongly reject any suggestion whatsoever that these women are in some way weak. They are victims of circumstance to a degree. A culture which supports women who give birth naturally and seeks to do so by actively criticising intervention and making it more scary than it already is, is not a good culture for ANY women. This is why I grow frustrated at pro-natural birth lobbies and some of the tactics and language they use, which is often belittling, insensitive and at time borders on ignorant, rude and offensive. I do not see it as being truly feminist or in women's best interests. I think it is blinkered to how it affects other groups of women who don't pray at the church of natural birth for whatever reason.

I do think it is good to encourage women to make a choice and to empower them and help them relax and feel comfortable during birth and this is what pro-natural birth advocates do have to offer which is great. It helps a lot of women. But there is no balance to the equation. With the way the culture is going, it leaves those women who simply don't feel that is the way to go, feeling guilty and unsupported. And these are the very women that possibly need the most support and the most reassuring during childbirth. Where is the support for them?

Unfortunately, its almost got to the stage where it has become a very real problem that no one seems to be able to get their head around in the UK. Budget cuts are driving women to seek extra help privately if they can afford it as frankly, they are terrified of NHS wards, perhaps with good reason (In 2008-9 60% of NHS litigation was in the area of obstretics - this is from 20% of all claims, showing that claims are much more successful than in other areas, suggesting there is a real issue here). The result is women with the most power to complain, aren't because they are no longer part of the system or satisfy themselves by paying for it - with doulas, independant midwifes or going down the elective route; women who can't afford it are let down by the inadequacies and women are more afraid and as a net result are ending up with a birth experience that they find traumatic and possibly with unnecessary injury.

I have been horrified by the bans on elective c-sections on maternal request by some NHS trusts on cost grounds. There has to be a reason for women to be seeking them, and I firmly believe it has more to do with fear than being a lifestyle choice and being too posh to push. It is leaving some, like myself, feel abandoned and feeling as if their fears will be ignored, and just fuelling their anxieties further. It is fine if you can find a sympathetic consultant, but with the tide seemingly turning against you, for some it is a fight that is daunting and one they don't believe they can win. And ironically at the same time, there isn't the same sentiment to question the cost of homebirths and the extra stresses it puts on staffing resources. I certainly do not think that homebirths should be stopped, but people need to see the hypocrisy in this and how it is having a detrimental affect on some people. Fortunately, NICE at least seem to recognise that asking for a c-section should be respected, and hopefully their new guidelines will stay the same as the draft when it is published next month. And thank goodness NICE also dismiss the cost argument against c-section on the grounds that it really isn't as simple as that.

The real problem here is no one is really asking the right questions about why women are choosing c-sections, and feeling against it is driven by tabloid sensationalism. I've seen a few very good articles on the subject, but they are few and far between all the criticisms of celebrities and a witch hunt against those who don't go natural. I question just how many women who fall into the elective by maternal request category, would actually be termed as medical need by another consultant who might deem it as need based on a previous traumatic experience or fear.

All in all, I would just encourage women to be more weary of how they phrase things and how their beliefs and strength of feeling can affect others. It is understandable as their faith may well have aided their ability to have a birth that was a wonderful and amazing experience. But then, I also think that stops them being able to have greater empathy for others not in their shoes. I realise it is often well intentioned and well meaning. Shoving the natural birth down the throat of the wrong person, can be as bad as preaching religion. Having room to breathe is essential. Not everyone is the same and there may be understandable, justifiable and very real reasons why someone else might not have the same confidence in either their body or the medical profession, that are beyond their control. They are not weak minded in any way, and I find it dangerous to even imply that, even unintentionally. Ironically, if women feel more supported, they would be probably be more likely to end up with a better experience all round and thats good for everyone no matter what side of the fence you sit.

Obviously these doctors must have good reasons to make the decision they are. They are medics, and are by nature not risk takers when it comes to their own health. There is very clearly a fear of something going on, whether perceived or real and obviously their choice means there isn't a significantly increased risk with a c-section or they wouldn't do it. They are not uneducated people.

I guess thats my real point here. I simply want to get it 'out there' that there is something that doesn't seem to be being talked about properly. Fear should not be discounted, discredited, or dismissed.

shagmundfreud · 12/10/2011 19:46

I think it's impossible to talk sensibly about the comparative risks of planned c/s vs planned vaginal birth, while failing to acknowledge the fact that many women labouring in hospital in the UK are receiving substandard intrapartum care which is responsible for many of the poor outcomes.

I think that if all women planning vaginal births had the same amount of money spent on them as women having elective sections, we'd see a huge plummet in rates of emergency c/s. If all women had one to one care in labour, and all women had the option of fetal blood sampling if they ran into difficulties, plus 24 hour access to the services of a consultant, should they experience difficulties in labour, I'm convinced the emergency c/s rate would go down significantly. And the NICE guidelines agree that this is so.

And then the whole argument of comparative risks and benefits of vaginal and c/s birth would have to be reassessed. At the moment the only reason planned c/s looks as safe as planned v/b is because on average 14% of births end in an emergency c/s, which is the riskiest option of all.

There are massive differences in rates of emergency c/s between hospitals in the UK which can't be explained away by the differences in the populations they serve.

If I was a healthy first time mum facing birth knowing what I know now, I'd book with an independent midwife, book at a first rate birth centre with a very low rate of transfer to a CLU, and if I couldn't manage these I'd get a doula.

Barring that I'd opt for an elective c/s.

The very last thing I'd do as a low risk mum is book into the labour ward of a big hospital with a high c/s rate and low midwife/mother ratios. I suspect that if women realised how simply walking through the doors of one of these places can double the likelyhood of an emergency c/s they might think twice about going there. But then hospitals are never going to advertise their staffing levels or their emergency c/s levels if they're shit are they?

quietlyafraid · 12/10/2011 20:26

shagmundfreud you are hitting the nail on the head here.

It really does seem to be a lottery with where you live, and a minefield in choosing which hospital would be best for your needs. To me that is not what the NHS should be about, as being honest about it, its not an equal service when that is the case. Those who educate themselves and those prepared to pay for the added extras to make up for the inadequacies in the system are going to have a better experience than those who do not. Some people just don't have the same options available. Hospital policies are so difficult to understand, vary widely and seem to often be in conflict with the recommendations of NICE.

I really don't believe that you can conclusively say vaginal birth is better than an elective or vice versa. Everything is distorted by the wide variations in standards. With the way things are currently, one method might be much better than the other in certain hospitals but exactly the opposite in another.

No wonder single women without a partner have been shown to be having a much worse level of service, because they don't have someone fighting their corner. The system heavily favours certain groups. I really don't see it getting any better any time soon.

All in all, its driving me to consider either the ludicrous idea saving up for several years and going private in London (I live in the NW) or not have children at all. I know its extreme, but its really how I am starting to feel about it all. I don't for one second believe that I am alone in this mindset though.

shagmundfreud · 12/10/2011 20:44

quietly afraid, a private midwife package - full care throughout pregnancy and labour, and a months worth of visits afterwards would cost about £3500 in London. A loan for this amount repaid over 5 years would have a very low monthly payment - about what you'd pay for a gym membership. I know a consultant midwife at a large teaching hospital

I borrowed the money to pay for mine and it was worth every penny.

Mind you, had I been low risk I would have probably been happy to go to my local birth centre, which is EXCELLENT, or have a homebirth with the local NHS team, who are really wonderful. It was just that I had complications in my pregnancy and was only offered the local CLU, which I wasn't willing to risk.

Quietly - don't despair, there are many, many good birth centres and NHS midwives out there. It's not all gloom. But you do have to do your research and not just assume that the 'default' option (nearest CLU) is going to offer what you need (although again - this isn't just a CLU issue, some are great).

shagmundfreud · 12/10/2011 20:46

Sorry, didn't finish that:

"I know a consultant midwife at a large teaching hospital who works as an im who works for this sort of fee, so you can get someone very experienced and knowledgeable for you money

quietlyafraid · 12/10/2011 21:29

I've been doing my research. Tbh, its not really helping at all. It just points out all the inequality and doesn't help to reassure me in any way. It just makes me angry, and feeling more and more as if I fall between the cracks.

The birthing centre thing, really isn't working for me unfortunately. In some ways it would be my ideal choice, but for various reasons I just don't think its right for me. For a large number of reasons, both psychical and mental. My very worst fear is intervention vaginally or going through everything just to have an emergency c-section. Loosing control of the situation is just my worst nightmare ever. I have extreme levels of fear, which mean that I get very distressed even when having blood pressure taken, leading to it shooting up. it hasn't been helped by having a previous doctor tell me, that white coat hypertension does not exist (despite evidence to the contrary and 3 nurses seeing the state of me and saying there was no doubt in their minds about it). I just become completely unable to speak or express my feelings. I won't let doctors touch me at all. Certainly not intimate places. To go from that place in my head to going to a relaxed enough state to be able to cope with a natural birth is not something that I can really see me being able to do.

I already feel like a complete failure as a women for it all. Its not something I think I can get past even with counselling, as to be perfectly honest the thought of counselling is frightening enough as it.

I now honestly do not think an elective is going to be a realistic option on the NHS either. I don't feel I will be taken seriously and the thought of having to fight for it at all, just knocks my confidence even further. I couldn't bare to be in the panic stricken state of being pregnant and be refused. To cap it off, the thought of being left in a hospital on my own without my partner with a baby just completely crushes me.

Honestly the whole thing, is just too much and leaves me completely despairing. It has affected my marriage, and though my husband is supportive, I feel as if I am letting him down and he will ultimately reject me because of it all.

Going private might be an option, but realistically the logistics and costs of it, make it beyond my means. The more I look into it, the more I just feel that no matter how much I want a child, it will remain an illusive dream. I'm rapidly running out of time too.

I just feel let down because of it all. I feel let down by my previous doctor, I feel let down by the NHS, I feel let down by a culture that doesn't recognise how I feel and I feel let down by a lack of understanding and support from other women. I just feel very alone from it all. Even though, I really don't believe for one second that I am the only person who feels like this.

Right now, I just want other people to understand these fears more and do various things to helping other women deal with it, even if I never manage to get past it. I want to get past the judgmental attitudes that are out there.

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