The anti-breastapo

[MsChanandlerBong]

I am currently 34 weeks, and yesterday I had another evening of what I have (privately) termed the anti-breastapo and wanted to see if I am the only one experiencing this phenomenon.

As I understand it, the breastapo is a body of people who go around trying to force you to breastfeed and making you feel horribly guilty if you don't. I have not come across one person like that (either socially or medically).

However, I continually keep having people tell me "oh it is really hard to breastfeed, just give up if you can't do it, it is more important that you are happy, it isn't any better for the baby, you'll struggle so don't worry about failing at it" etc etc. These comments are not in response to me talking about breastfeeding, they are almost exclusively out of the blue.

This is my first baby, so god knows how I will get on with breastfeeding, but I don't want to be a self-fulfilling prophesy and start out with the intention of quitting.

So my current experience is that the breastapo is a myth. But I keep meeting lots of very defensive women who have chosen not to breastfeed (and I respect their decisions, I truely believe it is a personal choice based on individual experiences) and I am beginning to wonder if this is where it comes from.

Anyone else come across the anti-breastapo?

icravecheese - that is really interesting! So I guess what I am (we are) experiencing now is the backlash resulting from the Breast is Best hype of a few years ago.

Hopefully things are moving towards more balanced advice and encouragement. But at the present time I think there is a bit of a strange situation whereby people who want to breastfeed are being put off.

Family and friends seem to think its abit weird that I want to try and see how it goes. Not heard anything positive about BF from family, my mum has already bought bottles and a steriliser.

I think secretly I quite want to meet some of the mythical breastapo to help give me a bit of a pep talk. A bit like a coach giving a football team a 'go on you can do it' pre-match hype-up to help me get my game face on!!!

I've had all sorts of comments about getting DD1 on the bottle so I can have a break/have a drink/give someone else a turn at feeding her/get her to sleep through the night/take an aspirin etc. I was made to feel bad that I didn't want to go for a night out and express. And the constant 'when are you going to wean?' questions got tedious.

That's one of the joys of parenting, whatever you do there will be a crowd of people telling you that you're doing it wrong

See if there's a LLL group near you, you can go along before your baby arrives so you can meet the leaders and form a strong support network. Good luck with the birth :)

Sarge I was having a little pain with latch for the first few days until a breast-feeding lady from surestart came and told me to "get rid of the pillows and just wave her at your boob" best advuce I have ever had. I fed with my legs curled up on the couch, lying down, walking around, in all sorts of positions I got comfy then let my baby find her own position rather than faffing with the tummy to mummy stuff the midwives had been on about. As soon as I did this I never had any more pain.
I was pointed in the direction of a video on biological nursing which was good as well it just seemed so much more natural and comfortable.

well, please don't be put off by BF ladies...more than anything else, its damn convenient - having FF one baby and BF another, I really couldn't face the washing bottles / sterilising routine etc again!! Just latch them on, and off you go. I own masses of scarfs / pashmina's and when I nursed my daughter I just covered my chest / her up with a brightly coloured scarf, easy! I did, however, still find the first 7-10 days of latching her on quite painful - your nipples just aren't used to it! However it began to subside after 10days (this never happened with my first born, I had constant pain hence after 4 wks of excruciating pain, I gave up. I now know I had the latch totally wrong, but many midwives etc told me he had a perfect latch ).

Funnily enough, my husband isnt a fan of BF at all.... he would rather me bottle feed (but then he isnt doing the washing / sterilising routine!). He says he really enjoyed bottle feeding our first born, and didnt really get a look in with our daughter as she was exclusively BF with no expressed / bottle night feeds etc.

My advice to first time BF's would be to get as much support / advice as poss - I was too 'proud' to ask for help / visit support gps with my first born, but was totally the opposite with my daughter, & I believe that is what helped me succeed the 2nd time. Good luck & enjoyxx

I haven't come across the anti-breastapo. Now I have breast fed and had problems I can really see why people give up. People did warn me it would be hard but it was much worse than I could have imagined. All fine now.

Lactation consultant really helped me. I was too proud for a few months to get proper help. I thought if you were determined you could get through anything but really I needed help to do it.

Good on you for posting.

If you want to breastfeed, the best thing you can do is try to get a bit clued up before the birth.

I thought that I would probably breastfeed, but wasn't sure, however then I read the ingredients on a carton of ff and was quite put off - I then became determined to bf!

In no particular order:

One of the most helpful things that someone said to me was that 'bf will be a bit of a nightmare for the first couple of weeks, then it will be geat'. For me the nightmare part was only about 48 hours, then it seemed to sort itsefl out.

I began lurking on bf boards on another forum. This was very helpful.

Get the free DVD from the website 'Best Beginnings'. The main film is just what you would expect, however I found the supplementary videos really useful. The DVD is called 'From Bump to Breastfeeding'.

Stubborness is useful! I found sheer bluddy mindedness quite an asset in the first 36 hours or so.

Get a feeding cushion.

Watch a feed - maybe at a bf group.

Learn to feed lying down. Oh the bliss of lying down for a quiet feed while watching films in the dark.

Count to ten as baby latches on. If it is still hurting at 10, gently put your little finger into their mouth and break the latch. If your nipples get sore put some nipple cream on them asap. They soon get used to the process.

Best wishes.

PS. I am still bf my baby as a toddler and am now a peer supporter!

Just to share my experience, I have never had any negative comments when feeding in public etc, but I have had friends who ask every time they see me "Are you STILL breastfeeding??!!" (ds is 6mo ) or "Have you not given up yet?" as if it is some kind of crack addiction.

When I was pregnant loads of people, both those who had bf and hadn't asked me if I was going to "try" bf in a patronising and tentative tone - i thought it was odd - I felt like saying, no I'm not going to "try", I'm going to bloody do it! As Gabrielle Palmer says in the Politics of Breastfeeding, you wouldn't ask if someone was going to "try" to learn to drive, you would assume that they will be successful.

When people asking about it I find myself justifying it, saying I couldnt be bothered with the washing and sterilising, or something about it being cheaper, becuase it is not acceptable to say that you are doing it because it is best for my baby.

I also never felt any "Breast is best" pressure at all while I was pg. My midwife never asked me how I planned to feed.

Good luck OP, there is lots of good advice on this thread already - I would reiterate that you need to arm yourself with as much knowledge and access to support before the baby comes - the breast/bottle feeding section on here was my lifeline in the early days.

brilliant advice from branching out, particularly the bit about unlatching & re-latching baby until it feels right / doesn't hurt. I wish I'd read something like this advice in 2007 when I was trying to BF my first born!

I absolutely do think that it's important to see a real baby being breastfed before you have a go yourself - it's like any new skill, a live demo really helps you understand!

It's about normalising it... the bottle feeding culture is what has been normalised in this country over the last half century. It's often seen as unusual to breastfeed your baby, although if you think about it, it's what we're designed to do. Sometimes it just needs a bit of help and support to get going. In this country we don't necessarily grow up seeing breastfeeding all the time, so very often the first time a mother has actually seen anyone breastfeeding a baby is when they have their own!

I hope you can track down a local group, I think the Association of Breastfeeding Mothers has a list on their website, although it may not be up to date.

I didn't really have much of an opinion on BF first time round, just "I'll give it a go". It was assumed we would BF at antenatal classes and that was that.

BF went brilliantly (was ouch the first time I tried to pull DS off when he was sucking hard! DOH!) and we fed for 21 months. I'm a major convert. I feel VERY strongly about it now. I was a mess for about 6 months after DS was born and BF was the thing I clung to, knowing I could do THAT if nothing else. It's been a hugely positive experience for us.

I cringe to think about my opinions on BF before becoming a mother! I gave my poor sister so much shitty attitude to her BF her two for two years each...

I think it helped that I actually did not think much about it when pregnant. Don't over think it!

OP I think I know what you mean, everyone seems to 'go on' about how hard it is and if you have to give up don't feel bad. I too know a couple of people who gave up the first day. I think if you really want to BF then you should persevere for a while longer than a day - but thats just my opinion.
Can I be so bold and cheeky to say that some people I know gave up so quickly - that it was almost like a gesture to say, I tried it but it was no good. I feel they did that because of the 'breast is best' message and they were just too frightened to say outright no I will FF. The pressure from some HCP is high and some women feel that they have to be seen as trying to satisfy the HCP's. I think I would prefer if some people were just honest and said they did not want to BF rather than the half hearted attempt. Someone I know was 'prepared for failure' and was talking her self round, 'oh well as long as I give it a go' long before she gave birth. Harsh as I may sound for saying this, but just the way she spoke about it I knew she would not BF and she did give up the first night.
A friend of mine is TTC and has said that she doesn't like the idea of BFing and plans to FF - good on her for making a choice I say. It's her body and her child afterall.

My DD is almost 12 - I found the first couple of weeks really hard but I wanted to give it a good go, it worked out the best for me in the end and I fed her until she was 1. People seem surprised by that (including MW at my booking in appointment). People think I am smug because it worked for me and I kept it up for so long. No actually it just was easier for me that way.

I am 38w now and hope I can have another positive experience. I'm a bit selfish because as well as all the positive things for baby, I actually quite like the positive things for me, no messing making bottles when I am tired, no formula to buy, no going downstairs in middle of the night - and importantly it helped get rid of the extra weight quickly last time.

My sister really struggled this time (2nd), she wasn't making enough milk to fill him. It's no biggy, I don't think any different about my sister. It doesn't work out for everyone. It may not work out for me this time. I bloody hope it does though- I found it so good last time.

If it's any consolation I am geting a similar reaction about my choice to use re-usable nappies this time. DH and I will give it a good go. Thats all.
My mum has bought 2 giant boxes of disposables (yes after I told her I bought washables) and one of my best friends is 'putting money on me caving in the middle of the night when I just want and easy life and give up the washables' I'm wondering why it's seen as 'so difficult' and 'not the norm so we are odd'.

eviepoo the same thing goes for anything a bit outside the norm - if you decide to carry your baby in a sling, you get told you are "making a rod for your own back" and you will never be able to put him down... ditto if you let him sleep in your bed, or if you feed on demand... or if you do baby led weaning... anything slightly "unusual" !

I think people need to get as well informed as they can about the process of breastfeeding, how it works etc (for e.g. milk doesn't usually arrive until about day 3 after the baby's birth, so the people who say they weren't making enough milk at day 1 were not even supposed to be at that stage!) so they can give it their best shot and see how it goes - there is no point in setting oneself up for failure!

And "failure" isn't the right word, it's not what I really mean...

Eviepoo - I agree with you completely on every point!! I know someone that gave up after less than 24 hours... I maintain that she would have spent longer trying to break in a pair of shoes!! And she already had her argument ready "well my pfb was fine being ff so I will not accept any pressure so back off" yet afaik no one challenged her on her decision to ff, the whole breastapo thing was something she anticipated purely in her mind. So whilst I'm not saying I will definitely 'succeed' (pookamoo - agree failure/success is not the right terminology but am at a loss for how else to put it!!) I will definitely have a good go for several days (weeks?) before abandoning hope.

I also plan on using reusable nappies. DH and I now don't tell anyone about this plan (apart from a couple of people who we know are supportive) because we got sick of all the eye rolling and being called tree huggers.

If anything, the whole situation has just made me more stubborn and bloody-minded - therefore probably more likely to persevere to prove people wrong. Looking forward to the "oh so you're still breastfeeding?" comments a few months down the line

Pookamoo - also agree it is silly to set oneself up for failure. Surely it is better to start out with good intentions. Even if you only achieve half of them isn't that better than not even having a proper go in the first place?!

Brilliant thread, totally agree! The anti-breastapo almost put me off even trying with DS, the general message I got was that it is almost impossible with your first, so don't even try. I bought formula and bottles and packed them in my hospital bag.

In the event, DS and I took to it like ducks to water and I'm still feeding him now he's 3! You may well be like me and have absolutely no problems at all, but nobody mentions that. It was very sore for a few days but that settled down without me even needing any nipple cream or anything. getting the latch right was fiddly, but after a few weeks it was second nature to both of us. I'd say it's a bit like learning to use contact lenses!

Best piece of advice I can give is to say that bf babies behave so differently to ff babies that you can't compare the two at all. The first few weeks you will need to feed them almost constantly, and the lack of sleep and the shock of being constantly in demand often lead people to believe that their milk isn't good enough, especially when they give them a bottle and the baby passes out for several hours.

It's easy to think this is because they were too hungry or that your milk wasn't enough to satisfy them, when really, having to digest proteins intended for calves knocks them out.

We are so used to thinking that all newborn babies do is eat and sleep, and that we can set up 3 hour feeding routines that it's easy to feel we can't breastfeed when things don't conform to these expectations.

Good luck!

I have been thinking about this thread and whilst I am a huge advocate of bf and am bf my 6 mo ds, I think the "breaking in a pair of shoes" analogy is a little unfair. Yes, there are some people who probably do give it a try as a token gesture when they have probably always planned on ff. There are people who deliberately bf for a couple of days so their lo gets the colostrum, before moving on to ff.

On the other hand, and something that I feel is all too common, is the mother who wants to bf, but having just had a baby is exhausted, emotional, overwhelmed and anxious about the well being of her newborn. If there is any doubt in her mind that her new born is not feeding properly or getting enough (maybe she doesn't realize a tiny bit of colostrum is all that is required) then she might feel reassured or pressured when the hcps offer formula. This has happened to a lot of people I know. Once formula has been offered I think it can be very difficult to reestablish ebf, although it can be done of course. But the early days are so important when the body is calibrating how much milk to produce and if the baby is full of formula it won't be demanding from the breast, leading to issues with supply.

So yes, people do stop early, but it is not a simple as saying they have given up too early and you would take longer to break in a pair of shoes, when we are actually talking about a mothers feelings about the health of a tiny vulnerable newborn.

Fair enough, the 'breaking in shoes' comment is probably a bit facetious and a silly generalisation so I shouldn't have applied it as a general observation. However, in this particular case I'm afraid the person had already decided that bf wasn't going to work, and "tried" just to be able to stick two fingers up at people.

I am quite shocked that HCPs offer formula so readily. The breastapo type horror stories I hear from people lead me to believe that quite the opposite would happen (ie withholding ff equipment even when specifically requested). So that further adds to my 'the breastapo is a myth' personal theory!

Such a shame that more support and encouragement isn't offered, especially when new mothers are feeling exhausted and are vulnerable. As someone said above, it sounds more and more like you have to be really stubborn to stick to your guns regarding bf.

MsChanandlerBong we do sound quite alike :)

Moulesfrite - Oh yes I get your point there are plenty of mums like you describe, a friend of mine was like this, she was so determined but as you say tired emotional overwhelmed, her breasts were so swollen and the latch was so painfull her DH begged her to give up and give a bottle. I can understand why, when he just saw his wife and child getting more and more distressed.
I think when she was at home she did not ask for help. As other posters have said there is assistance out there - but yes you do need to seek it out.

I think one of the tricks is to try and keep calm about it - easier said than done and I am just keeping my fingers crossed that it works out for me this time.

Very interesting friend and I can agree that within your friendship group the only people who seem to bang on about feeding are the ffers rather than the bfers. They sau they are constantly 'got at' but all I can see if them complaining at the scienitific evidence that breast is best as yet another report comes out. We all make choices all the time, balances difference risks etc and they decided the risk of formula feeding was outweighed by the risk of their own insecurities over breast-feeding (in the friends I am alluding to, don't want to generalise). Everyone is so careful of not wanting to make ff mums feel guilty and maybe adding to PND, that they bend over to say it's okay, that a happy mum is a happy baby even 'though the mum might have been happier with a bit more support on how to bf properly in the first place.

I breastfed (still am off and on - ds is 4.5yo now, another on the way) and the first 7 weeks were not good due to a combination of healing after an early bad latch and a case of mastistis because the Blooming Marvellous in Winchester measured me wrong and I was wearing too small a bra. But suddenly one day it just all fell into place.

I would say always ask for help as soon as you need it: GPs and HVs are next to useless, go straight for the breastfeeding counsellors at your hospital or NCT/LLL and be upfront about what's wrong. BFing should hurt after the initial toe-curling letdown down which lasts about 10 seconds (and disappears in time as your milk ducts get used to working!).

I loved bfing because it was just so conventient. Me. baby and shawl or bf-friendly top and that's all I needed when out and about. No bottles, not feeds to make up in the middle of the night. I've fed anywhere and everywhere and most of the time no-one has even noticed. Heck I even fed ds in a church in the middle of a Christening and no-one said a thing (a quiet baby latched on is preferable to a hungry, crying baby).