Formula Feed

[MrsBee19]

I've just been to the midwife and been told if you formula feed you can't prepare any bottles in advance (as in previous years) , they have to be made on demand and will take a good 30mins for each prep time (including kettle cooling)
I can't help but think this is a tactic to encourage breastfeeding.

Can anyone shed any light?
Thanks

Tbh if I think about it too much it stresses me out! If it's like food you heat it to a certain temp to kill off bacteria but as soon as it starts to cool down bacteria starts to grow again obviously it needs to cool down abit because of baby drinking ,it, the bottles arnt air tight when your feeding either so who knows, anyway I've bottle fed 3 children and they've all been ok ( first two were in the days when you made up in advance and put in the fridge though)

DD1 and 2 i used to make the milk up and keep in the fridge as per the guidlines at the time.

DD3 i used to keept the preboiled water in the fridge and heat it up in the microwave

This has changed again to making bottles from scratch

What marrow says sounds like the best idea.

The problem is that the original powder contains X amount of bacteria and they multiply at Y rate in milk at room temp and slower rate Z in the fridge. Using 70C wafer kills most of the bacteria (for simplicity let's say 90%.

Making fresh means you have (0.1X) times Y bacteria.
Using room temp water means you have X times Y bacteria
Making in advance and storing means you have (0.1X) times Y plus (0.1X times Y) times (Z times number of hours stored) bacteria.

Assuming 100 bacteria multiplying at a rate of 10/hour at room temp and 0.5/hour in the fridge:

(0.1 x 100) x 10 = 100
100 x 10 = 1000
((0.1 x 10) x 10) x (0.5 x 6) = 300

Using this calculation storing for 12 hours gives a level of 600 and 24 a level of 1200 which is only approximate but serves to demonstrate that keeping milk longer in the fridge does still allow bacteria to grow, albeit at a slower rate.

There are fewest bacteria using making fresh, most with using room temp water because you're not reducing the level of bacteria to start with. As long as the powder is put into hot water you're reducing the levels of bacteria.

what frak said.

Icravecheese i can see the logic in your gp friend advice, but the research has proven otherwise.

Formula made at room temp, even used straight away contains more bacteria than that made with hot water and cooled. Yes they get chance to breed, but their numbers are so seriously depleted that it takes a while for them to get back up to harmful levels.

So the quicker the milk is used the better. That's why best practice is to use straight away. Remember once inside a baby the conditions are ideal for bacteria to breed.

Iirc one in fourteen tins of formula are affected. It's not dodgey. It's just inherent in the process. Fm companies just don't like to be upfront about it.

Even if powders could be pasturised (which they can't) it would stop being sterile as soon as you open the tin.

"Really hoping I can manage to bf cos all the formula feeding info has made my head hurt! I can imagine finding it rather difficult when so tired after giving birth and home with newborn"

I have breastfed and bottle fed and, although getting breastfeeding established at the beginning was very difficult for me, once I could get DD to latch on properly it was much easier. I used to make up formula feeds back in the days when you could make up several bottles at a time and I admit that it was a right old faff compared to breastfeeding, especially in the middle of the night. No going downstairs to a cold kitchen, no messing about heating a bottle no messing about sterilising things etc. I gave up breastfeeding at 6 months and regret that I didn't continue.

Oh FFS, claiming that formula guidelines have been tightened as a tactic to encourage breastfeeding is ridiculous. Babies have DIED from incorrect formula preparation. Would some of you seriously prefer it if the information wasn't out there? How would that allow you to make an informed choice?

here here tortoise.

People seem to think it is done in order to inconvenience them. Erm, no, that'll be advancement of medical science.

And iir(tiktok)c there have only been two changes in the history of the world ever. Yes, what random people have told you to do night have changed every week, but the guidelines haven't.

Its not difficult, especially if made with the boiling and chilled cooled water method through the night.

The point being made about babies dying after badly made formula I think needs to be clarified. On another thread someone posted a study/investigation mentioning indeed the death of newborns after being fed formula. The study pointed out that the problem was the bottles not being stored at the right temperature after being made (something to do do with the fridge temp). The babies were premature as well therefore more vulnerable.
When I ask a Dr friend of mine about this, he pointed out that for the salmonella risk to be eliminated, you'd have to leave the powder in hot water for quitre sometime (I think he said 20 mns or so). And anyhow he was quite baffled about this particular concern. He also pointed out that in his experience, people are very quick to blame food sources when becoming ill with food poisoning or whatever else when sometimes the explanation is as simple as not washing hands properly (don't forget thumbs!) or surfaces.
I am not saying that we should ignore all advice but rather put things in perspective a bit.

There always seems to be some random doctor friend who disagrees with the WHO and Dept of Health

You misread Rita, he did not disagree, he simply thought that it was not really worth worrying about that much.

No one knows how many babies are non fataly poorly though incorrectly prepared formula though either. But we do know that hospital admissions for gastro enteritis are almost exclusively ff babies. SO clearly the message bout making with hot water and storing cold/using asap is an important one to get across.

Experience = anecdote
The plural of anecdote is anecdotes. Not data

Exactly MBJ

And how does he explain enterobacter contamination?

It's not possible to completely sterilise formula, short of pasteurisation. All one can do is reduce the number of bacteria to acceptable levels without compromising the milk. 70C and rapid cool is a compromise but it's the least risky compromise.

lady That's a good 8 minutes of screaming baby then. (Better than poorly baby, but distressing).

HV AND MW advised using the cool water method listed above . Thanks to mn advice (and after 3 weeks of FFing this way), I now make up 3 or 4 bottles in advance using hot water. I use cartons for night, when out, and when I'm feeling lazy.

Iirc, the key thing is that the water must be hot when the powder is added.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

If your going to leave them standing for a couple of hours you might as well make them in advance and put them in the fridge at a temp where bacteria doesn't grow, bacteria grows faster at room temp

I used the cartons for the first few weeks after I switched to ff (from when dd was a month old). They are a bit more expensive but I think it's well worth it in the early days if you can. She is now 11weeks and making up each feed fresh is generally fine, I just use cartons when out all day and for the middle of the night feed. I keep a couple of tubs of water in the fridge ready for emergency quick cooling!

Someone may have already answered ths, and i may be a bit thick.... but cant you just boil the kettle.. make the forumla up, then place the bottle in cold water to cool it? That would only take about 4 mis... not 30

It's a balanced between preserving the nutritional integrity the milk and killing the nasties.

and also i have a quick question regarding when you are out and about... how do you go about doing feeds then? obviously you can't really prepare a bottle and then re warm it in a bottle heater as that would be at risk wouldn't it?

Would it be safer to carry a flask of boiling water and use that for the feed?