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Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Preparing bottles in advance

129 replies

birchykel · 01/06/2011 16:20

Hi all,
I am 37 weeks pregnant and planning on breastfeeding but am open minded in case it doesn't work out. I had my first girl 8 years ago and back then I started breastfeeding but became poorly and ended up using Sma, I would make them up fresh before bed say 11.30pm and store about 6 in the fridge and then warm them up when needed during the night.
I emailed SMA to find out if this is ok and they said basically not really, I need to boil the water, leave to cool no longer than 30 mins and then make it up and either use it or keep it at room temp for no longer than 2 hours. Obviously whatever is best for baby but surly at 1 or 2am with a screaming baby in your arms, having to freshly boil, wait 30 mins, make it up and make sure its not too hot for babes is alot of waiting and no doubt a tad stressful??
Like I said I am hoping to breastfeed anyway but want to be prepared, anyone out there that can advise? Maybe I am being completely thick??

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DialMforMummy · 04/06/2011 08:56

point taken MoonFace.
With regards to formula companies, I sort of disagree with you.
Water has to be boiled, in fact that the only thing that has been consistent throughout years of ever changing guidelines.

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 04/06/2011 09:40

fair point re water needing boiling but ime most people think think this is the only risk. They think they are doing the right thing using cooled boiled water.

Why can't the instrusations just say "there have been cases of bacteria being found in formula powerf o please use 70deg water to minimise the risk of infection" then the boil kettle, wait thirty mins etc bit?

RitaMorgan · 04/06/2011 09:40

Fifi - shocking that your HV gave you info that she knew was incorrect!

fifi25 · 04/06/2011 10:20

tbh it sounds like scare mongering to me. There have been very few cases. As long as the milk is heated to 70 deg and the bottles are sterile its fine I dont know any kids who have taken ill drinking formula either made up with refrigerated water and heater or with milk stored in fridge and heated as it was years ago

Does anyone actually know anyone who has taken ill. I have been through a lot of playgroups/nurseries with 3 kids and not one person has ever said their kids were ill from drinking formula.

Rita The water is heated to 70 deg and kills the bacteria what advice did she give me 3 years ago which was wrong?

frakyouveryverymuch · 04/06/2011 12:39

Fifi sadly I do. A little girl who was one of the few e.sakazakii cases. She survived but the family don't know exactly what the extent of the damage to the brain.

Also another poster on here said her DS got salmonella from formula and there was nowhere else he could have got it.

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 04/06/2011 16:20

I bet the parents of those who died wished they had been scare mongered aware of how to make up formula safely. I'm confused as to why you think it's scare mongering fifi, but say "as long as it's heated to seventy it's fine". Confused

All sorts of gastro problems occur in much much higher numbers in ff babies than bf. You are lucky not to know any...or perhaps they just haven't mentioned it to you?

BoffinMum · 04/06/2011 16:26

I can't see why scientifically it's not OK to make up bottles with boiling water for the day and cool them rapidly in the fridge, to be served cold as required (my kids have all been happy to take milk cold).

fifi25 · 04/06/2011 16:30

Moon - Is it not fine as long as heated to 70 then Confused.

RitaMorgan · 04/06/2011 17:53

That is ok BoffinMum (though not as ideal as making each fresh) - though you'd cool them rapidly thenput them in the fridge.

Sorry fifi I am not clear on what you did then - boiled the water, cooled it, reheated it to 70c and then added powder?

fifi25 · 04/06/2011 18:37

Rita - Yes sterilised the bottles, added freshly boiled water, cooled rapidly in a pan of cold running water, stored in fridge then heated the water in the microwave and added the milk. I then put it in a jug of cold water to cool again whilst going up the stairs. I had a microwave steriliser and once it was opened you had to use the bottle immediately. I only done it for the night feeds to save me sterilising and boiling kettle in the middle of the night. Obviously i wasnt fully aware if the water was 70 as i didnt have a thermometer. When i went out through the day i would take freshley boiled water in a thermos then add milk from a dispenser or use cartons.

boredbuthappy · 04/06/2011 21:02

This is what I've been doing: Boil kettle, sterilize thoroughly washed bottles, added required amount of water to bottles (I make up 4 or 5 at a time, once at night and once in the morning, I always have an extra one made up) and add formula and shake. Cool all the bottles in a pot of cold water and then store in the fridge until needed. My DS takes formula at room temperature and for this reason, I also pop them in the microwave (without teat) for 20-25 secs and shake again before I feed him.

I did the whole making bottles as you need them but i just doesn't work. I found sometimes that when I tried to time the bottle prep for when I thought DS would wake up and want to eat, he'd stay sleeping and then the bottle would go to waste. Or of course he would scream while I made the bottle if I waited until he was hungry.

I think the advice is there to make sure that even a have-hearted bottle waster/sterilizer could essentially prepare a bottle without poisioning a baby. If you wash and sterilize thoroughly I think you should be okay to prepare bottles in advance. I've not once had an issue with a pre-prepared bottle stored in the fridge.

fifi25 · 04/06/2011 21:11

I stored the prepared feed in the fridge and heated when needed with the 1st 2. When i had the 3rd in 2008 they said i couldnt store prepared feed and reheat, i could only store the prepared water, reheat water and add milk or add milk then reheat. Sounds like its always changing

Meita · 04/06/2011 22:27

When DS was less than 3 weeks old, we were in A&E for something unrelated, gave a urine sample, but otherwise DS was found to be ok (though needed more milk).
A few days later we were called and told we had to go back to A&E immediately. They had found something in the urine. They had found Enterobacter. At the time they couldn't tell if it was enterobacter sakazakii which is found in formula powder or another type of enterobacter. (We never were told)

Luckily, DS was looking fine, was happy, and quick-dip tests in his urine came clean, and blood tests showed no infection. So the possibility was entertained that it might have been a contaminated urine sample. We had to give two further separate urine samples in order to double-check.

Even so, even though everyone thought it was likely to be a contamination, because DS just did not seem ill in any way - even so, they were going to insert a cannula into him and start giving him broad spectrum antibiotics IV. They were going to keep us in until they were absolutely certain that he did not have any enterobacter. We were told that this was absolutely dead serious. They were not going to take any chances.

So when we did go home (they failed to insert a cannula - not for lack of trying - and were therefore not going to be able to give him IV antibiotics anyway), I googled around a bit - wanted to know what this scary thing is that DS might have!

I found out that just one month earlier, 9 babies had been infected with enterobacter in a German hospital, 6 of them died.
I found out that there is hardly any treatment for it. Enterobacter is resistant against all but two or so known antibiotics. Treating enterobacter with the wrong antibiotics initially will make it all but impossible to deal with it later. Regarding its resistance to antibiotics, it is worse than the 'superbug' MRSA.
I found out that the death rate of enterobacter in babies is between 40% and 80%.
I also found out that one strain of enterobacter (the e. sakazakii) is found in formula powder. I think I remember reading somewhere that scientists believe the cases of infant death caused by e. sakazakii in formula powder were massively underreported in the Western world. In effect, the science of it is, babies die of it, probably more than we know of. In places where formula is often made up with water that isn't hot enough, the cases are more common.

The link below btw says that it is on the rise, too.

Basically I didn't sleep until we got the all-clear.

Sorry, I know this sounds like scare-mongering. But the fact that a random A&E team picked up on this and was immediately so very concerned tells me that it is not so rarely seen in English hospitals at all. I think there is good reason for the 'new' advice on making up formula.

I also think that the thing about 'letting it cool down for 30 minutes' is meant to be helpful. On my formula box (SMA) I believe it did say it should be 'about 70 degrees celsius' which could be achieved by letting it cool down for about 30 minutes. Saves you the thermometer, makes it more practical to do, no?

In the end, it's got to be your decision. The e. sakazakii risk is not enormous, and salmonella are hardly ever found in formula anymore. Using boiled and cooled water is clearly better than using totally unboiled water. But my way of doing it would have been to keep near-boiling hot water in a thermos, cooled boiled water in another flask. When feed needed, mix formula powder with hot water, then add cooled water. Works day (away and about) as well as night!

healthcare.mylovemyworld.co.cc/2011/02/enterobacter-sakazakii-history-symptoms.html

Although this bacterium can infect at any age, the greatest risk of exposure is the age of the baby. Large increase in cases reported in the U.S. Neonatal Intensive Care Units (NICU), several hospitals in England, Holland, U.S., and Canada.

In the United States the incidence of E. sakazakii infection that have ever been reported is 1 per 100,000 infants. An increasing incidence rate to 9.4 per 100,000 in infants with very low birth weight (less than 1.5 kg of body weight).

BoffinMum · 04/06/2011 23:02

Yikes.
Breastfeed, everyone. Now.

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 05/06/2011 07:27

fifi, i just wondered why you follow the advice if you think it's scare mongering? I wouldn't be comfortable with making cold milk and then heating as i feel that its important to kill the bacteria first. If 70 doesn't kill them all, which it doesn't, i would rather there were a fewer number in there in the first place. If made cold and given chance to breed there would be more to kill, so the same heat, killing the same proportion would leave more alive...does that make sense? As 70 is a compromise already i wouldn't want to push it any further.

Boffinmum, the problem is that boiling water destroys some of the nutrients. So boiling water is better than cold if only for the odd feed. If doing it for every feed i'd be concerned about the nutritional profile.

Boredbuthappy i don't think bottle warmers are very accurate...best to check with a thermomiter.

Meita thank you for sharing your story.

DeepDeepFlavours · 05/06/2011 07:50

I've said this before on similar threads but I live in Belgium (where babies died in 2004) and following those deaths the guidelines were not changed one bit!!! The advice here is to use cold bottled water or cold boiled tap water!!! All doctors recommend that and all creches make formula that way.

All my British friends who live here make bottles the Belgian way as that is what it says on the tins here and what doctors recommend!

People think I'm crazy for using 70degree water.....

fifi25 · 05/06/2011 11:00

fgs in 2001 and 2004 this was how bottles were made then it changed when i had 3rd in 2008, read previous posts i have said the same thing 3 times

TarkaLiotta · 05/06/2011 12:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RitaMorgan · 05/06/2011 12:19

I doubt it is recommended now Tarka! If nothing else boiling the milk will destroy some nutrients.

fifi25 · 05/06/2011 12:25

Moon - do you mean you would not use the chilled water method then reheat with milk to 70. I prefered this to making the milk in advance then heating it back up to tepid. All three times i just prepared them how HV told me. They were all fine regardless of making it fresh, reaheating milk or water.

So what are you supposed to do now. Make all feeds up fresh and not prepare in advance. Im not having anymore just curious.

OompaLumpa · 06/06/2011 08:02

Hello i have been reading this thread with interest as i havent yet had our DC1 but due this month. Whilst planning on bf, i want to understand the prep needed for botltle feeding but have found this thread rather confusing!

Can i summarise what i think i am meant to do and then tell me if i am completely wrong!

Ideally make each feed up as needed using freshly boiled water which has been cooled for 30 mins. Put formula in and cool in a jug if cold water until cool enough for baby to drink (is that room temp?)

But to save sanity at night etc, i could follow above, make up a few bottles using 30 min old boiled water and the cool them all under cold water and store in the fridge. So at night i would grab one of those and heat it a little to baby drinking temp? Have i got this right?

Q. Why do i need to cool rapidly after addung formula to water? Why cant i leave on the side to cool naturally?
Q. If going out and i take a preprepared bottle fromm fridge, how soon do i have to use it if changing bag has insulated bottle holder in it? I assume i would warm up by asking for jug of water or feed as whatever temp it is when i open changing bag?

Sorry if im asking anyone to repeat themselves, but am a bit confused!

frakyouveryverymuch · 06/06/2011 10:04

Q. Why do i need to cool rapidly after addung formula to water? Why cant i leave on the side to cool naturally?

  • bacteria multiply rapidly at room temp up to body temp so any bacteria left will gave time to breed. Rapid cooling minimises the time available for bacterial growth.

Q. If going out and i take a preprepared bottle fromm fridge, how soon do i have to use it if changing bag has insulated bottle holder in it? I assume i would warm up by asking for jug of water or feed as whatever temp it is when i open changing bag?

  • when removed from the fridge it needs to be used within 2 hours. Once you take it above approx 5C the bacteria can start multiplying again.

Be careful with the 30 minute rule - my kettle isn't at 70 after 30mins as we get lukewarm tea.

Adding hot water doesn't sterilise the formula, it kills as many of the contaminants as it can but some will survive so you need to do everything you can to inhibit growth in order to prevent them multiplying to a level which could be harmful. A newborns immune system can deal with a few bacteria but even an adult would be hard pressed to fight off high levels.

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 06/06/2011 11:38

fifi sorry yes that's what i ment. Had intended to say i would use your other method (mix hot, chill, rewarm.) this is as set out in the guidelines. Just not a whole day's worth iyswim. was visiting family and rushing to sneak in a cheeky mn, in my rush i missed that bit. Smile

fifi25 · 06/06/2011 11:41

its all so confusing, im pleased i wont be doing it again Grin

frakyouveryverymuch · 06/06/2011 11:43

It's not that confusing when you get the science behind it (which is GCSES level biology, if not KS3) but I swear the instructions are deliberately designed to be as opaque as possible....