Preparing bottles in advance

[birchykel]

Hi all,
I am 37 weeks pregnant and planning on breastfeeding but am open minded in case it doesn't work out. I had my first girl 8 years ago and back then I started breastfeeding but became poorly and ended up using Sma, I would make them up fresh before bed say 11.30pm and store about 6 in the fridge and then warm them up when needed during the night.
I emailed SMA to find out if this is ok and they said basically not really, I need to boil the water, leave to cool no longer than 30 mins and then make it up and either use it or keep it at room temp for no longer than 2 hours. Obviously whatever is best for baby but surly at 1 or 2am with a screaming baby in your arms, having to freshly boil, wait 30 mins, make it up and make sure its not too hot for babes is alot of waiting and no doubt a tad stressful??
Like I said I am hoping to breastfeed anyway but want to be prepared, anyone out there that can advise? Maybe I am being completely thick??

Just goes to show what midwifes/HV recommend isn't always in sync with what the actual guidelines are

EATING DIRT IS NOT THE SAME AS INGESTING POTENTIALLY FATAL BACTERIA. ITS LIKE LICKING A RAW CHICKEN

so what are these potentially fatal bacteria and have they killed any child since your 2004 scare? just wondering.....

PS: licking raw chicken is really quite unlikely to kill you.

Just read that leaflet Thanks Rita & it says feeds can be stored in fridge for 24 hrs?

Thorny, yes, if they are prepped with 70c plus water and cooled rapidly

Chynah, many refs have been made above

For more details here

Val dd is 3 in july and advice from HV was as i said, store water in the fridge

DDs 7 and 9 make up milk and store in the fridge

Thanks. I am v cautious with food hygiene so I am glad to know I haven't been doing anything 'wrong' with the other DCs.

Hi Geordieminx- are you shouting at me?

Eating dirt can be the same as ingesting "potentially fatal bacteria". Dirt can contain all sorts of nice contaminents (which is why you're supposed to wear gloves while gardening, so you don't get toxoplasmosis. E.coli lives on skin, up bottoms, and in dirt. All sorts of thing poo in dirt.

The difference here is that you're understandably trying to get us to reduce risk for our little ones. We know small babies are at risk of infections.

Licking raw chicken- provided it's uncontaminated- is not a risk. But we know that a high proportion of chicken does have contamination, which is why we all cook it. The amount of formula that's actually got bugs in it is unknown- but it's sensible to assume it needs cooking too, purely to reduce risk as much as possible. None of the figures you or anyone else has linked to give us an exact risk, but the info is about making things safer for our babies, which is more helpful than blanket statements about babies dying.

Sorry Fifi - I just meant that it goes to show that MW/HV's aren't always recommending as per the guidelines...they changed the year DS was born, so for them to be recommending otherwise to you 2 years later shows that they aren't always the best source of information

Val - you can read whatecver you want to see in to most things:

Since 1958, 120 cases of Cronobacter sakazakii infection in infants have been reported, an average of fewer than three cases per year worldwide.

even if ALL were attributed to formula its really a drop in the ocean.

Thanks for the link, valpollicella, it's actually very reassuring, as it contains this statement:

" Since 1958, 120 cases of Cronobacter sakazakii infection in infants have been reported, an average of fewer than three cases per year worldwide. Powdered infant formula, which is not sterile, has been implicated repeatedly as a vehicle of Cronobacter infection"

So yes, contamination is a risk, and the guidelines make sense, but with 3 cases a year in the world, the absolute risk is teeny tiny. Good.

The HV knew the guideline on the tin as did i but i still made them up with the water and had no problems. The other 2 never got sick either though so i must have been lucky. TBH keeping water in the fridge seemed a better idea than keeping milk.

That's fair enough Fifi - pleased to hear it!

I'm just a paranoid OCD=ish person...(seriously!) I wouldn't have been able to do the bottle any other way, given what I knew, and the fact that no matter how sterile the water (and/or bottles) were, it wouldn't have made killed anything in the non sterile powder.

I thought if the water was heated to 70 deg it killed the bugs in the powder

If you add 70c+ water to the powder, yes. But unless I'm reading it wrongly (and forgive me if I am) that's not what you did?

Yes, put the water in the fridge then heat in microwave when needed, add milk shake and then cool on the way up the stairs in a jug. Easier than sterlising a bottle, boiling kettle and preparing a feed at 2am.

The likelihood is small, the risk (so adjusted for the severity of the consequence) is huge. It's Russian roulette with a many chambered gun.

There are other contaminants than sakazakii and other consequences than death with are similarly devastating. How do you know before you give the formula that it's not the one with the bullet in?

Re the nestle machine mentioned up thread, it makes up ff with cold water. Shocking i know. Thread on this in bf recently. Formula companies hate admitting that the powder is not sterile. At least i think they must...otherwise why the cryptic iinstructions?

Also nipples don't need to be sterile as bm is antibacterial. Plus ff contains lots of inabsorbable iron which apparently aids bug reproduction, even as they continue through the lo's gut.

Iirc correctly one in 14 tins of formula are contaminated (can't remember where this is from but have read a lot of threads on it.) no doubt there have been many more non lethal undetected illnesses due to poorly prepared formula. I would't want to make my baby unwell, even if the chances of death are small.

Fifi keeping almost sterile milk in the fridge for a few hours is considered a better option than giving completely unsterile milk. [Smile]

As a first time Mum-to-be, I can honestly say I am more confused now than when I started reading all of the above

Haven't read whole thread but ime you are much more likely to succeed at bf if you have no alternative - ie; don't have any formula in the house. That way if you are at a low ebb in the middle of the night you won't be tempted to 'give in' and give a bottle. You can then wait till the next am to make a more rational decision. I know if we'd had formula around dd2 would have been ff and I'd have regreted it hugely.

'One feed at a time' was a phrase I found v useful.

bm antibacterial? seriously?
Thing is is it was that vitally important to make up formula with water at a certain temp, why give guidance as vague as "cool it for 30 mns and then it's fine"?
I do not deny that making up formula with very hot water would kill nasties but what I am saying is that if it was THAT important they would advise to use a thermometer or something to check the temperature.

Great advice DialMforMummy - I struggled with bf my first son for the first day or 2, and I know I'd have relented and given formula in the middle of the night were it in the cupboard. I'm guessing most of us are never too far from a 24 hour supermarket/garage/chemist so don't be tempted to have a 'just in case' supply (for me, it would've been like keeping a pack of cigs in the house when I was giving up, in case the urge took me to give in; in an emotive state your decision making not at it's most rational and likely to be something you regret later)

Sorry - meant great advice spongefingerssavedmylife - too early and no sleep!

i made up bottles with cooled boiled water. Totally wrong and I didn't realise it. Luckily got away with it. It was very convenient when out and about though. I think next time I would make up in advance and keep in fridge, and use cartons when I went out. I never warmed the bottles, DS had them at room temp. Now he has cows milk straight from fridge. Might do that with formula.

yes, it contains stuff (lactoferrins?) that pretends to be gut lining. Bacteria latch on hoping to gain access to the lo but the lactoferrins wrap round it, sweep it up and carry it out. In one study where e coli was introduced to bm and left at room temp there was less e coli present after 24hrs than was originally introduced. In formula or cows milk it would have multiplied through the roof.

As mentioned in my pp i think the instructions are vague to avoid admitting what you as actually doing ie sterilising the powder. It is much kinder on the brand image of formula companies to perpetuate the myth that it's the water that needs treating rather than their product.