I miss cheese...

[misspollysdolly]

...has anyone actually brazenly eaten stilton, brie, shropshire blue (am actually salivating now...) or similar forbidden cheese during their pregnancy in spite of all the 'risks' and lived to tell the tale...? Has anyone eaten such forbidden cheese (specifically) and been very ill or had pregnancy problems as a result...?

I miss cheese. A lot. I know it's not really for long, but still.....

I avoided certain foods, yes. Actually, I had my first child in Italy, where I've never heard of the word listeria and therefore I ate lots of gorgonzola to help me get over the fact that I had to avoid my beloved prosciutto crudo (they are big on toxoplasmosis in Italy).

I did drink the odd glass of wine and allowed myself a drag of cigarette on special occasion.

A friend of mine, who doesn't smoke or drink, cycled during the whole of her pg through Milan's busy roads. We all have different ways of assess risks.

If you are worried about listeria, then that would take the enjoyment out of eating it anyway.

Giving up certain foods didn't bother me at all during my pregnancy, I could still eat salad if I washed it myself, and ice cream etc, so I didn't feel as though I was giving anything up. I hate soft cheese anyway. But my midwife was very strict, as she had just seen a baby die due to the mother being ill with listeria.

Like I said sanctimonious. I have nothing to feel bad about, and so I don't.

It is My body, My choice. Whose else choice should it be? Thats basic biology and basic human rights, and I despair that any modern woman with half a brain could possible disagree.

Responsibly is in the eye of the beholder, we're not all so idiotically self-assured that we think our way is the only right way. Why are you?

Nobody is being criticised for avoiding things (do try to keep up, dear), you lot are criticising those who don't. Which is my problem. Beak our, mind your own. Clear enough for you?

I do think it's important to remember that just because you do something and come to no harm doesn't mean it's a safe thing to do. You could drive down the motorway at 90mph without a seatbelt and not die - it still wouldn't make it safe. I'm sure there are millions of women out there who have smoked, eaten soft cheese and pate, and drunk to their hearts content and suffered no ill effects. However you have no way of knowing that by doing these things you won't be in that tiny percentage of women that does get listeriosis.

Yes we know that. Being grown women we can assess risk for ourselves.

Gosh, you sound very angry, Winter. Of course it's your choice, I'm not saying it should be anyone else's, but one might hope that given the research and advice that is available to pregnant women you might make the right choices.

I'm not so idiotically self assured that I think everything I do is right, But when it comes to the very simple choice of:
Eating something that has a small risk of causing death or harm to my unborn baby
vs
Not eating it...

Hmm, it's kind of a no-brainer, really! Why would you?

I ate the cheese.

And I ate the oysters, prawns etc etc.

I pretty much broke every rule (other than the mercury in the fish thing which I was very careful about).

I was comfortable about the freshness and quality of the food.

I had absolutely no problems at all.

nineweeks - you have a greater chance of contracting listeria from eating out at a restaurant than by eating cheese.

Are you avoiding restaurants?

I don't really eat out to be honest, but my understanding was that it is only really fast food restaurants that pose a huge threat of this. I am totally willing to be corrected though, if that is not the case please tell me as maybe I will have to think about eating out at all if there is a risk.

No, definitely not only fast food restaurants. Sorry, looks like you will be dining at home for the remainder of your pregnancy!

You'd better avoid salads too because apparently washing them doesn't get rid of all traces of listeria.

I just stuck to well trusted restaurants. I was once ridiculed by a family member for refusing to eat the side salad that came with my food, but why would I risk as dangerous illness for the sake of a piece of limp lettuce and slice of tomato?

I ate cheese.

The advice they give you is utter bollocks.

I am all for avoiding things that might seriously be a danger. But when you look at the actually science and risks levels (your risk of getting listeria is 2.7 in a million!! Far, far more likely to get hit by a car than that) but when it comes to food I prefer to stick to sources I trust than garbled nonsense guidelines that don't take account the actual scientific source of things like Listeria and Toxoplasmis.

I think only pre washed salads are at risk of listeria. I don't think it is present in normal lettuce - say- that you only need to wash carefully (especially if dirty with soil, as soil can be at risk of toxoplasmosis... see, it's endless...)

Totally agree belgo. It's sad that people ridicule you for being careful and responsible when it's the ones who proudly flout the rules and eat what they want without a thought that doing something wrong!

And you know Kitty, I will now look into what you've said, and if that does mean I might need to avoid restaurants, big deal!I'm an adult and can deal with it.

I've just been looking at the Count The Kicks thread and reading some sad stories about women who've lost their babies (NOT due to listeriosis I hasten to add) but it does put things into perspective, how precious and fragile life can be at this stage, and some of the deeply selfish attitudes on this thread are making me feel even more nauseous than I already do - I can't and will never understand why anyone would choose their own comfort/appetite/desire over their baby's health.

Exactly, I very much doubt that the lettuce sold at the supermarket has ever seen a real open field where there is a real chance that the soil can contain toxoplasmosis.

The whole two outbreaks of listeria which have occured in britain in the last twenty years were caused by butter and lettuce - so if you've got hundreds of midwives saying "ooh, I just had a patient die from eating cheese" they're lying.

No, Nineweeks, every one is making decisions on the basis of their risks assessment.
One might eat all the cheese in the world and feel uncomfortable at getting on the car, you never know...

LaWeasel, if you are referring to my post, I am not in Britain, and my midwife had a patient who had lost a baby due to listeria. The cause of the listeria had not been confirmed.

The advice is WRONG

That's why we're not listening!

Listeria is not magically contained in particular types of cheese, it occurs when germs are passed to food products (of almost ANY kind) because food hygiene standards aren't good enough.

Sorry belgo, I'm x-posting a bit!

I do think the advice about avoiding salad is wise, because the contamination rate of bagged salad (with all kinds of unpleasant stuff) is pretty high.

LaWeasel is right- listeria can be found in any food product, really.

My midwife said lion marked eggs were fine to have soft boiled when I was pg with dd. Is this not so?

And bagged salad? Just checked the nhs site for food recommendations in pregnancy and they don't even mention bagged salad, only washing soiled veg.

I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I mentioned the salad. When you look at the number of cases of listeria that have actually happened in the past couple of decades in Britain it does put it in perspective. Something like 160 cases over 14 years.

Personally I am eating all the cheese god has created but am scared about getting into a car!

But but but the sensbile and wise LaWeasel is singling it out as wrong.

Does washing it help or do you have to boil it for 3 hours in a pan of bleach?