I miss cheese...

[misspollysdolly]

...has anyone actually brazenly eaten stilton, brie, shropshire blue (am actually salivating now...) or similar forbidden cheese during their pregnancy in spite of all the 'risks' and lived to tell the tale...? Has anyone eaten such forbidden cheese (specifically) and been very ill or had pregnancy problems as a result...?

I miss cheese. A lot. I know it's not really for long, but still.....

Another cheese eater here. During first pg I ate soft cheeses, chorizo and salami etc, and had the odd glass of wine. Coming to the end of my second pregnancy now - in 2nd trimester I had a massive craving for brie over christmas and ate a whole wedge on my own!

Agree with lunafire about trusting food sources, but also about trusting instincts. I have stayed away from liver and liver pate during both pregnancies, partly because the medical advice on their potential effects seem concrete but also because I just haven't fancied them, and I'm usually a big fan of meat/offal.

My husband's cousin caught listeria from eating unpasteurised cheese during pregnancy (she wasn't aware of the risks as this was a few years ago now, in France). She became extremely ill, went into premature labour and almost lost her baby. Fortunately the baby survived (and is now a strapping young lad) but it was definitely touch and go for a while.

If you are really craving soft/mould ripened cheese then just cook it, as suggested above. Brie is lovely in a toasted sandwich, for example!

Finally found this after some trawling. We all have different attitudes to risk-taking, and many are risk-averse in pregnancy, which is fine. What upsets me is when the reasons for avoiding foodstuffs are unclear or poorly communicated.

Anecdotally, a few weeks ago I was at a friend's wedding and happened to be seated at the same table as a very pg woman, who was also a midwife. She ate everything, including the salad, and had two very small glasses of wine with dinner and a small champers during the toasts. Obv this is against standard advice, but I think worth it for being able to toast the marriage of one of her oldest and best friends.

I think you can get listeria from unwashed salad and hotdogs, you need to be careful to wash salad and fruit and veg.

I just think there are risks you need to take; you can't wrap yourself in cotton wool the whole time you're pregnant;but eating a few types of food are surely things you can live without for a few months for your baby's sake, the risks are tiny but you don't know that you won't be the unlucky one who ends up with a nasty listeria infection.

What you can & can't eat during pregnancy drives me totally mad - however hard I desperately try and stick to the guidelines, I have managed to consume something on the "forbidden" list every time without actually meaning to....must be my dumb pregnancy brain, but I ALWAYS manage to have something I shouldnt, then end up worrying for weeks on end about the effect it will have on my unborn baby. I kind of yearn for the 70's when my parents were preg - absolutely no advice whatsoever. We live in an age of too much information which has turned us all into gibbering, worrying wrecks!!

So, if you fancy abit of cheese, have it! Like jamama says, everyone lives their lives accepting different levels of risk. If you're happy eating cheese, then go for it and enjoy!!

"So, if you fancy abit of cheese, have it! Like jamama says, everyone lives their lives accepting different levels of risk. If you're happy eating cheese, then go for it and enjoy!!"

Thing is, it's not your life at risk but the baby's.

Then again, I think even if a hundred women came on here and talked about how they got listeria and lost the baby etc. etc. there would always be some people who would ignore it.

I don't find the list of things not to eat too constricting. A bit annoying from time to time, but hey it's 9 months, not a lifetime.

Can you really not avoid alcohol/soft cheeses/pate/unwashed salad for 9 months?

Thats up to each woman to determine, there is only one person in the equation, not two. My body my choice.

It's your baby's body too, though, and he or she doesn't have a choice. There are very much two people in the pregnancy equation, one who is reliant on its mother to make the right choices for it!

I think women often get so caught up in their 'rights' when pregnant; their right to eat and drink what they want, have the birth they want, they forget about their responsibilities.

Completely agree with FluffyDonkey, is it really that big a deal to avoid a few things for a few months, for your baby's sake. The experts don't hand out this advice to try and suppress or control us when we're pregnant, it's because they think we should know that there are risks attached to certain things.

As mature women we should be able to accept that rather than stamp our feet and say we are going to ignore the advice because we don't like other people telling us what to do and we know better- an attitude that I have encountered in pregnant women.

Thing is, by doing that, saying you don't care and eating pate anyway for example, it's not the people handing out the advice you potentially hurt, it's your baby. Do these things really taste so good that your enjoyment of them is more important than your unborn baby's health?

No, just the one person. One name, one history, one person breathing and walking around and thinking..and deciding what to eat.

Like I said, my body, my choice. Not yours, or anyone elses on behalf of a foetus.

Do you realise how sanctimonious you sound?

"Thing is, it's not your life at risk but the baby's."

oh you can say that for everything! driving to work, crossing the road, stroking donkeys.........everything is risky even when not pregnant!

yes but there are risks you don't need to take. You can't sit at home throughout your pregnancy, it wouldn't be practical, so you need to cross the road and drive to work..you don't need to eat these foods though!

Sorry Winter but I think you sound quite selfish and caught up in yourself with the whole my body my choice thing, it's not just about you but about your baby! I'm really not sanctimonious, I just try to make the right, responsible decisions.

Anyway don't want to get caught up in an argument with another pregnant lady, each to her own.

I ate normally throughout both of my pregnancies, with the odd glass of wine now and again. I had textbook pregnancies resulting in two perfectly healthy babies.

The rules on what you can eat and drink varies from one country to another, one of my DM's friends is a MW in France and she reckoned I was fine eating cheese, soft eggs, rare meat and positively recomended the occasional glass of wine!

Right, and responsible are subjective. Every country has different guidelines, some people would be appalled at things you eat wiithout thinking.

How about you look after your body, I'll look after mine? I can't abide sanctimonious prigs with little understanding of risk and and too much ability to be bothered by others.

First pregnancy by any chance?

I didn't eat un-pasteurised cheese. I did eat liver once or twice when I was struggling to keep my iron levels up and really craved it.

I also had the odd glass of wine. My sister-in-law is a doc and told me that whilst the potential problems with listeria are very very severe (albeit very very unlikely) in her opinion the problems with alcohol is all about quantity - FAS is awful, but the babies that present with it usually have mothers who have drunk heavily throughout the pregnancy. You would not expect to see any effect from the odd glass here and there.

She also pointed out that by giving up smoking I had earned myself a massive chufty badge already as that was pretty much the best thing to cut out.

I do think there are some things that are unequivocally BAD when you are pregnant (like smoking heavily / drinking two bottles of wine a day / being addicted to crack) and mothers who are doing that sort of thing should be informed by their health professionals, midwives etc that they are potentially putting their babies life at risk. If a bit of a scare tactic is part of a coherent program to support them away from those actions, good.

But there are far, far more behaviours in pregnancy that are "maybe a bit bad" or "could be very bad but we don't know" or "definitely bad but extremely unlikely". I don't appreciate the idea that a woman is not able to make SOME of her "risk assessments" herself and have these respected. Especially in areas where there just isn't clear evidence one way or another. Ultimately, you are pregnant but it is still your body, and you have to weigh up all risks in terms of the severity & the likelihood of it happening. Everyone draws those lines in different places.

As for saying you "don't need" to do X but you "do need" to do Y - well that is pretty subjective too! I mean, if I decided my route to work involved crossing a busy road and working with heavy machines, would I have to give up working whilst pregnant? I wouldn't "NEED" to work in order to physically survive or carry my baby safely. Some people say they can't give up an addiction because they "NEED" that drink / drug / cigarette. Need is a very loaded term.

GwennieF I am currently pregnant in France and two different mid-wives have checked with me that I am NOT eating unsuitable cheese (unpasturised, blue, stuff with mould on outside), raw/rare meats, smoked salmon etc etc ...... and have thoroughly made sure that I understand the rules.

I asked a couple of French friends what they did about cheese during pregnancy and they told me that they totally avoided cheese to be safe. In the supermarket here it's not so easy to find pasturised cheese.

Based on what your French midwife friend has told you it would seem that not only does advice differ between different countries, but within the same country!

Personally I think it is up to every woman to make her own informed decision about what to / not to eat. In my own case, since the mid-wives are giving me so many blood tests for toxoplasmosis and constantly asking me if I am avoiding banned foods, I am doing what I have been told to where possible. Even though it seems like a very small risk, I would feel really stupid if I ignored their advice and lied to them about what I had been eating and then got ill.

It seems a great deal of logic flies out the window during pregnancy. The risk of catching listeria from cheese is so so so small - was it that Guardian story that said over the past 10 years in the US only two people have caught listeria from cheese, and one of those was from some homemade cheese?

The only times I have had food poisoning in any shape or form was after eating at reputable restaurants - so maybe we should add restaurants to the list of things to avoid 'just in case'. Let's all just stay at home and eat dry toast and bottled water.

I have eaten supermarket cheese of all hues through 2 pregnancies without ill effect. I would only avoid the unpasteurised stuff.

Bottled water? You disgrace! Haven't you heard abut the BPA and the carcinogens?! And I hope that toast is made with organic spelt bread, the mouse droppings found in commercial wheats added to the preservatives in bought bread, well the risks, y'know.....

nineweeks I'm with you on this one, and yes everyone else, it is my first pregnancy so you can all roll your eyes and give me smug looks to your hearts content!!!

IMO avoiding certain cheeses is a really easy way for me to minimise the tiny chance of me catching listeria. Yes, I really miss brie, but it isn't going to do me any harm to skip it for 9 months.

And if I were the one in a milion (or whatever the stat is) who caught listeria from my 'trusted source' cheese, I know I would feel absolutely terrible that I didn't even have the willpower to miss out on a cheese sarnie and that resulted in a poorly (or worse) baby.

I thought having children meant having to make a number of sacrifices... surely this is such a minor one it is laughable?!

Maybe the reason that you can't abide sanctimonious prigs, Winter, is because deep down you know you're pretty selfish and self absorbed? And that we're not in fact sanctimonious, just trying to do the right thing, which makes YOU feel bad and lash out.

And, no, it's my fourth pregnancy actually! Yes, that's right, the FOURTH time I have managed to give up certain foods for months, and survived!

` Why isn't it enough for you to consider things for yourself, and do what you think is right, without feeling the need to sneer at others and call them selfish as they don't be paranoid-- do as well as you? Are you so unsure of your own choices?

Do what you want, no-one cares. Why do you care about anyone else?

I don't feel in the slightest bit bad, thanks. Haven't you got over yourself after 4. I have. I couldn't possibly care less what anyone else eats.

Totally agree MsChanandler, some people sadly don't seem to be able to put anyone before themselves and label those of us who can as sanctimonious when in fact we are just doing the responsible, mature thing.

It doesn't matter how tiny the risk is, for me, my baby's life and healthy are so important I'm just not prepared to take that risk. Listeriosis IS rare but when it does happen it can be fatal, why risk it for a bit of smelly cheese?

I never thought I would read about a pregnant lady criticising someone for avoiding certain foods. How strange.

Winter, I think it is you who feels bad about your choices as you are lashing out in quite an aggressive way. Why on earth would I be unsure about my choices?I am simply following advice.

I don't need to get over myself as I am not the one saying things like "My body, my choice" which is often a precursor to someone saying something irresponsible and selfish IMO. I don't know you of course so no I don't care what you eat but in theory I do find it sad that there are women out there who won't act responsibly when pregnant and slag off those who do.