Did you watch the documentary - Is Breast Best?

[Jill72]

Just watched on I Player - bloody brilliant - highly recommend!

oh i love that... seen it twice now.. try cherry is having a baby too.

Aw no didn't see it ......so did they Conclude whether breast is best?

"Breast IS best but don't beat yourself up if you can't make it work - it is a personal choice" - was the message.

but breast isn't best. It's simply the biological norm.

I was only relaying the message of the programme!!! DO NOT want to get into a debate as I really do think it is an individual choice for every mum to make and therefore no right or wrong answer to the issue, so it would be TOTALLY wrong to judge a fellow mum for whatever choice they made- I think the programme was well presented and looked at views from different sides and offered food for thought! (no pun intended!!lol!) :)

I did see that programme and sighed. This trite and simplistic bollocks all over again. It's like reading a babyC&ntre thread.

It didn't really go into what the common problems many first time mothers encounter. Or how to bully people demand to get proper one on one help.

The extended feeder was presented as someone who was the active agent in continuing the feeding (supporting the myth that 'it's all about the mother not being able to let go') and NOT the child. As a pregnant breastfeeder of a 2-1/2 year old I can guarantee it's not really just my decision, although of course I could decide to wean.

The successful first time breastfeeder fed to six months (that's not all that long given WHO quidelines), the 'weirdo' extended feeder fed to five years. Same old stereotypes.

The stuff about bonding was the most simplistic and misguided nonsense ever. And I'm an enthusiastic bfeeder who does think it plays a part. But the way the programme presented it, was bollocks, and I'd be incensed if I were a FF.

Cherry herself came across as a pusillanimous nincompoop

Funnily enough the author of that infamous Mother & Baby article came across much better in the programme than on the page.

There are two humans involved in the aforementioned 'personal choice'. Worth bearing in mind in all of this.

No. Didn't watch it. Am past caring?!

was only relaying the message of the programme!!! sorry Jill, of course you were. It's just the programme is behind the curve in conveying the public health message.

Breast is normal
It can require a lot of help to get off the ground though and that should be readily available.

I can only express my opinion! As a woman who has NO experience of babies - no family or friends with babies to look to as role models the whole issue of breast feeding is something that I know little about but am keen to do. I found the programme a help and I enjoyed it. I can certainly see that it is a topic that raises many questions! I think my greatest fear would be what to do when it is time to go back to work - I found it astounding though that the rates of breastfeeding women are so low - did not realise that is the case. I was thinking of going to the NCT - do you have any experience of them Otchayaniye???

The problem is that for a lot of women it's not really a "choice".

If someone wants to formula feed, then that is absolutely fine.

But most women want to breastfeed, start breastfeeding (almost 80% I think) and then most stop before they ideally would like to - lots before 6 weeks.

Why? I think the problem is a real lack of knowledge and support from the NHS. Most midwives and health visitors have little or no training in breastfeeding, they don't know what a good latch is and they can't identify common problems like thrush or tongue tie. So when a new mum is struggling and turns to them for help, all they can suggest is bottle feed.

Loads of money and effort is put into breastfeeding promotion, but not enough is put into support for mothers to breastfeed for as long as they want to.

Plus of course lots of women haven't seen their mothers, aunts and sisters breastfeed and don't have them to turn to for advice. Society's ideas of what a baby should do (have a big feed every 3-4 hours and sleep through the night at a few weeks old, get fat as quick as possible!) don't work for breastfed babies.

It was CRAP TV.

I agree with RitaMorgan. It's great if you can BF but if you struggle the help and support you get is very poor. I had every intention of BF my first dc but it didn't go as planned and I really struggled, I gave up and FF. Then I had twins who were prem and were tube fed formula with BM top ups. I'm expecting dc4 any day now and have been so put off by BF I would actually like to FF from the start but am attempting BF from pure guilt. Why can't people mind their own sodding business and respect womens chosen method of feeding. I am more put off BFing by other people constantly going on and on about BF then I am the actual BFing!

Piss poor TV I thought. How on earth that Cherry girl got to present her own 'documentary' is totally beyond me. Trash.

OK, have to rant a bit because I just watched this today on Iplayer too coincidentally! OP, I'm really glad you found it useful and I think before I had my DS I also would have because I had NO IDEA about anything to do with BF so it would have opened up a lot of things for me.

However....

I'm in agreement with worzel and otchayaniye on this one! I was very disappointed with this program and it's shallowness.

The thing that bugged me about the program (apart from all the usual stereotyping 'earth-mother', 'extended-feeder', 'teen-mum' etc) was the final comment from Cherry that she no longer felt guilty. I don't think she should feel guilt by any means but was unsure about exactly WHAT she had uncovered that had allowed her to rid herself of guilt. Actually the program seemed to highlight that all the reasons she felt this guilt were valid points.

So little support is given to breastfeeding women in our society and this results in so many women making the choice (which I respect completely, honest!) to FF. What gets me is that so many women believe themselves to be incapable of BF. When you compare the low BF rates of Britain with the rest of the world....well I just don't believe that so many British women have something that physically prevents them from feeding their babies. I think the honest opinions and fears about BF given by the teen-mum in the program were far more believable. NO SUPPORT! In the program, Cherry talks about how she just couldn't continue to feed and of course at that stage she really couldn't. I believe if she had grown up in a society where she had watched women BF around her, observed the trials and difficulties, had active and continued support from other women (relatives, friends, midwives), well her mastitis would have been nipped in the bud before it had any chance of infection and there wouldn't be any couldn't. I really hate it how it becomes all about the woman's capability - no wonder poor women are left feeling guilty!

I would really strongly recommend to ANY pregnant woman (with first DC) not to rely on programs like this. If you want to know about BF then the best thing would be to go along to a group like 'La Leche Legue' and actually watch new mothers BF and asking questions and talking to each other about their problems. I was completely shocked when I started BF DS1 by just how little I knew about BF. I remember breaking down in tears and thinking 'why the F* didn't anyone tell me about this'. It's so hard to do it alone and in isolation.

Ok...very tired and ranting on and on and on in very boring fashion...my apologies all.

jill72 and any others. I do apologise. It is VERY easy for passion about a subject and how it's consistently misrepresented to come across as patronising and overzealous ;)

I am also passionate about programming and documentaries as a new journalist myself. My husband is a TV producer and thought this was sub-standard.

'Breast is best' sets up a hierarchy of feeding (it's not, breast and formula are very different substances and methods of feeding, totally different) and I think one of its unintended consequences is to foster judginess. 'Oh, you KNOW breast is best, don't you?"

Of course we know the benefits as 80 percent of women start off breastfeeding. That number quickly dwindles to about 1-3 percent by 6 months, then there is

For some, the ending of breastfeeding will be their 'choice'. Or rather unilateral decision because there are two humans involved, albeit one who can't speak! For many others it will be because of insurmountable problems and lack of support or having to go back to work (expressing is impossible for some as no machine can stimulate let down, it won't work for me, for example). To say that's a 'choice' is insulting to their best efforts.

The woman in America who has to return to work after 10 weeks. The woman with no family support and two other small children, the woman with mastitis, etc etc. They didn't 'choose' bottles blithely.

What will boost breastfeeding in this country is longer maternity and paternity. Better informed HCPS (it is very patchy), available one on one breastfeeding support. But that costs money. Plus seeing breastfeeding of both infants and older children out and about and in the family

jill I didn't do NCT as I had my first baby in Singapore, where incidentally the bfeeding help is woeful (even though the healthcare is private and they had everyone on tap and available) and I had to hire a UK breastfeeding counsellor for reassurance. I'm not bothering with NCT with this pregnancy

But yes, I recommend groups because they can guide you to help.

LLL will be invaluable as you will actually SEE breastfeeding

I recommend Jack Newman's videos. Check out self latching videos

Don't buy the Claire Byam Cook book!

Do not underestimate just how much time you will spend breastfeeding in the early weeks. This was my biggest shock as the mother of a prem jaundiced baby, and I had no one available to ask advice really or share it with. I was angry and shocked and felt let down.

But we got there and erm, are still doing it. I don't look like a hippy extended feeder and I don't hang about with other so-called lactivists. We are a diverse bunch ;)

very very best of luck.

as a news journalist myself.

Ha, I'm almost 40 (sigh)

I didn't think the programme was too bad, I quite enjoyed it actually. I don't think it however stated the role of close relatives in bfing though. From my own experiences I really struggled with BFing and it was only through immense pressure from DH and my mother that I kept going, then finally got help with latching when DD was 8 weeks old at the health visitors antenatal group (which is by invitation only at 6-8 weeks).

Hi Otchayaniye :) I really appreciate a good debate!! It is through this that we can all learn new points of views and even change out own original thoughts! I am certainly seeing things in a different light and am glad to have heard yours and others opinions. One thing that clearly strikes me is how the lack of any personal experience of SEEING breastfeeding happen leaves a new mum to be clueless on what to expect!! Without some guidance how on earth would you manage!! I will certainly be scouting out what is available around me pre and post birth. I have commented in other threads about my poor experience so far with the NHS and other posters here also comment on the lack of support - it looks like you need to go out and find it for yourself??

BTW - we should all have passion for the things we believe in and I understand your fire!!! :)

As a mum to be I find a lot of this quite depressing. For something so natural, why is breast feeding so difficult for so many people? It really worries me, from the stories my friends have told me, that I am going to struggle and end up giving up.

I think I need to scope out a support group before the baby is born to stand any chance of getting the hang of it. I watched the programme and the main hopeful message I got from it was that the support groups really help.

Whatsoever, the truth is that having a new born is hard and at the same time you are (both) trying to learn a new skill. Like anything new, some people find it relatively easy and some don't. Like I'm good at learning new languages but find yoga bloody impossible. It isn't possible to work out ahead of time whether you'll be the one quietly getting on with breastfeeding without any major problems or whether you'll struggle. The important thing in my view is knowing how to find good help and support in case it is needed. Mumsnet is great for pointers as is kellymom and the jack Newman site. I used the phonelines when going back to work too. try not to worry and enjoy the ride... and remember that people tend only to.post on forums or opine on tell if they're having/had problems. The rest of us are just too busy obsessing about some other aspect of parenting...

The programme annoyed me, as I think it relied too much on stereotypes. I hated how the "lactivist" were pictured yanking down their tops and lobbing their huge boobs out in a really obvious way - fine if they were happy with that but that is not what you have to do - it is possible to bf very discretely in public if you feel uneasy about people seeing your breasts.

The things that Helped me to establish breeding were lots of information and knowledge and support. The following things helped me:

Mums net
Kellymom
Jack Newman videos
2 books on bfeeding - lll and ina may
Phone numbers of peer supporters etc
Baby cafe
Talking to others who had bf
The support of my dh and other family members

The knowledge I gained from these resources was invaluable. It meant that I could just politely ignore my mil when she said that ds should be going 4 hours between feeds etc - if I had no knowledge of normal bf behavior I might have thought something was wrong and stopped.

I agree that the support when you are struggling by the NHS is awful. I bf ds1 sucessfully but struggled with DS2 I was repeatedly told by mw to 'give him a bottle' and not to feel 'bad' so i gave up, same story with ds3 so im so over the BF thing now that im expecting DC4 which is very sad.