Please tell me I've done the right thing.....(aggresive dog)

[redd82]

Hi, I really need someone to tell me that I've done the right thing....I'll try to keep it brief.
In a nutshell when I met and fell in love with my OH he had a dog that he rescued from a dogs home - the dog was a "lifer" due to aggression but he took him home as he has experience with difficult dogs. In the time that I have known the dog, he has bitten 7 people - including myself. I know it's due to being mistreated and in a way he does it to see if you come back and are worth loving.However, he has bitten strangers.
He is very protective of my OH and me and won't let anyone he doesn't know near us or in the house. I also have a dog - a king charles spaniel that is the totally different end of the spectrum.
When I discovered I was pregnant almost 7 months ago I said that if the dog ever showed any aggression to the baby or anyone wanting to get near baby, the dog would go.
However, after about 2 months I changed my mind and said the dog had to go. I couldn't take the risk. I would never trust him around the baby and our child comes first.
We have had 5 months of arguing and now he is going back to the dogs home next fri (he has to for legal reasons.)
The thing is my OH is absolutely distraught and says I am wrong and that he could be trained. I have desparately tried to change my mind but I can only think that the only way to remove the risk is the remove the dog.
I don't think he'll ever forgive me but I have said I would rather deal with him not forgiving me than put our baby at risk.
I am desparately hoping that when he holds our baby for the first time, he realises why i I have HAD to do this.

I know it will ruin the rest of my pregnancy...i am resigned to that.

Please tell me I did the right thing?,,

xxx

Bloody hell, you are in a bad place :(

Is he hoping to use the five year separation to apply for divorce? Does he not realise that even defended divorces happen. Even if she does not want to get divorced, he can still apply - citing unreasonable behaviour, adultery, whatever - the only difference is that it will be heard in the high court.

However I would be putting it in his ex-DW's mind that it would be advantageous (in terms of costs) for her to petition him. There is little doubt that adultery could be proved in your case, you could just show up with the bump and point to confirm your DP has done this!

Ah I crossposted with you....

Does she know if she applies for divorce on the grounds of his infidelity she can claim for her costs from him? It doesn't have to cost a lot - my last divorce - I was the one committing adultery and we agreed between ourselves, ex-dh would 'petition' me officially, but we agreed on a settlement beforehand so everything was very easily sorted. He appointed a solicitor, I did too - we never even met the solicitors - just emailed them and they sent documents to sign. It cost about £500 IIRC. And I paid the costs because I was the person who was petitioned.

You've done the right thing. You can't take the risk.

We have an old collie/german shep rescue who I worried like hell about before I had my 1st and he has NO aggression problems if he had he would definately have gone no matter how heart breaking it would have been. Your children always come first.

Hopefully someone might take him on who is keen to work on the aggression and atempt to retrain him a dog like that needs full time help to overcome those sort of issues.

god if only she would actually file...on unreasonable grounds or adultery....he'd signed straight away.she just won't. but also won't sign any petition sent to her, even though it means no costs whatsoever to her.

There is no chance of amicable discussions beforehand to come to a mutually beneficial agreement as she is being totally unreasonable.

I even wrote the first petition (pretended he did, and sent to to her. As if she had written it, citing unreasonable behaviour on his part. all she had to do was physically post it.

she woudldn;t.

then she wouldn't sign the petition based on two years even though she didn't have to pay a penny and he'd used two years instead of unreasonable behaviour on her part.

she wants it on adultery. But she won't file

If we do a contessed, it'd have to go through a solicitor and at 250 an hr, we just cant afford it with new house and little one.

so we'll have to wait for 5 years and pray she doesn't try to take him for all hes worth.

xx

Shiney, Muddymamma,is the Whisperer really an eejit? Never heard of the Listener. I grew up nextdoor to dog breeders, they didn't treat their dogs too kind and I encountered a couple of bad experiences so I was watching this to learn about dog body language etc to help feel more comfortable around the more excitable ones you meet, often off leash. Anyway if I became a dog owner myself (would love a whippet) I know I have bucket loads to learn.

red82 really hope it all works out, that's a tough day for you on this thread thinking about it all, must be exhausting when you're so far on. Once your dp is handed his newborn baby he'll understand your instinctive protective feelings.

Yes he is, he uses pack theory based on studies of wolf packs years ago.

Newer research has shown that packs of feral dogs behave completely different in the wild to packs of wolves.

If you want to learn more about it post in pets or google and the research should pop up. Positive training has shown to be much more effective than punishment or fear based training.

I think you've done the right thing, although it is important to remember it is a hard time for your partner. It is understandable that he is upset - he's had the dog for a long time, and probably doesn't fully understand what parenthood really entails.

He hasn't "chosen the dog over you", he probably just genuinely hopes/believes the dog will be fine with the baby.

So while I think you've done the right thing, I think it is important to go easy on your husband and support him in his sadness, rather than getting angry at him for being sad.

She will once she meets someone else. I personally would have your DH write to her formally to set out the fiscal situation - ie that they have lived independently since and the situation with the house is X etc. To protect both parties when they do divorce. Even if she isn't up for the divorce, she's actually making herself vulnerable if she doesn't have this information.

Hm... this is a difficult one. Usually I am on the animal side because new parents are often unreasonable towards their pets who they had for many years before the baby. However in this case i think you did the right thing... and this is why... In order for the dog to not bite the baby one must train it in such way that the dog thinks that the baby is an alpha male and above him. It can be done however at this time it sounds like your OH had gain dominance over the dog but you did not and that is why the dog showed aggression against you in the past. Normally some techniques can be implemented to train the dog so that he thinks that the people in the family (including the baby)are dominant but it sounds like your OH have been unsuccessful in that with you so he will probably not be able to do it with the baby either.
It would be better if a relative or friend can take the dog (I know it is easier to be said than done) because otherwise the dog will be put down.

BeerTricksPotter - my feelings exactly, very well said.

I can't stand seeing ads for dogs on Gumtree "because I can't have pets in my new flat", "because I got a job and now haven't got time", "because I'm having a baby and won't have time"... in regards to that last one, having a baby doesn't mean you need to dump your dog if the dog has not shown behavioural problems/aggression. However, OP, your dog sadly has, and your baby comes first. You've done the right thing.

ilovemydogandMrObama - "I'm a dog lover, but if they even growled at any of the kids, then it would be dog's home." I have a bit of a problem with this:

Dogs growl as a warning sign. They could bite, but they growl to show they are uncomfortable or unhappy in a situation. If your child pulled your dogs tail very hard or kicked it hard (you may not see this; children can be crafty when it comes to testing limits with dogs and other pets, and won't always own up to antagonising the animal) would it not have the right to growl to show it is in pain/fear? They may growl at a "normal" interaction, for example if the child normally plays with the dogs' ears with no concern from the dog and one day the dog growls at this action, the dog may have an ear infection and is expressing its discomfort. Why shouldn't it, if it is ill? They can't say "OUCH!" like we can. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't right to dump a dog just because it growled. It is a natural warning sign. Any dog owner should know that suppressing growling in dogs is dangerous because it means that they feel that they will be punished for growling and next time will just go ahead and nip or bite - because they've never done it before they don't know that it is the worst thing to do, they just know that they've been punished for growling and that wasn't nice for them. Just thought you should know this. It's different if the dog growls at the child persistently just because the child looks at the dog (much like I was yesterday at the cash point by a muzzled collie) - then you may have a point in getting rid of the dog - but you do have to allow for the fact that dogs express themselves in different ways to us.

we had a terrier that would bite and was aggressive, because he was so protective. He had it all wrong, and that was my fault because we babied him, and let him into our bed etc. He didnt undestand his place in the pack, and even though he never ' savaged' me or anyone, just nipped, I knew I couldnt trust him. I set a trap, placed the baby monitor and a baby blanket in the moses basket and left the room. When the baby cried he jumped staright into the moses basket. Now I dont know what he was going to do but he just hated children and I couldnt trust him so we found him a new home with a lovely old lady to look after him. After the children were born I just didnt care about the dog on the same level. There was no contest. Hopefully your DH will feel the same when your LO is born.

You have absolutely done the right thing. If your dh cannot see that he's a moron. Your child must come before a dog to him!!

Of course you did the right thing!!

We've had a rescue dog for 4 years who we love like it was a child. However now I am pregnant we have been been thinking long and hard about how much we can trust her, and have even talked about whether to ask my parents in law to adopt her, and she hasn't even shown a hint of violence or ever bitten anyone. I just think it's something you have to automatically consider when you are bringing a baby into a home with a dog who has a sad history, or any pet for that matter.

The majority of people will decide that their pet, with training, will be safe with their child, but everyone should take the time to discuss it and think about it surely! and if the dog has already bitten people then I think the majority would decide it wasn't worth the risk.

Don't mean to be amateur shrink-ish but I wonder if his problem isn't really the decision to get rid of the dog itself (which as you say he will totally agree with in time), but the fact that you've decided for him and he is powerless to stop it right now, and it's probably become the focus of all the other things that are making him feel he's lost control at the moment. Just a thought.

Hope things are a bit better for you today, redd.

Try and detatch and not bring it up, if you can. (Hard, I know).

If he brings it up, stuff along the lines of "I understand how hard this is for you" might help him to feel you're sympathetic without you actually backing down iyswim.

Just don't forget your own needs just because he is being (frankly) a bit manipulative.

Totally agree with miamix - this is spot-on.

"Dogs growl as a warning sign. They could bite, but they growl to show they are uncomfortable or unhappy in a situation. If your child pulled your dogs tail very hard or kicked it hard (you may not see this; children can be crafty when it comes to testing limits with dogs and other pets, and won't always own up to antagonising the animal) would it not have the right to growl to show it is in pain/fear? They may growl at a "normal" interaction, for example if the child normally plays with the dogs' ears with no concern from the dog and one day the dog growls at this action, the dog may have an ear infection and is expressing its discomfort. Why shouldn't it, if it is ill? They can't say "OUCH!" like we can. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't right to dump a dog just because it growled. It is a natural warning sign. Any dog owner should know that suppressing growling in dogs is dangerous because it means that they feel that they will be punished for growling and next time will just go ahead and nip or bite - because they've never done it before they don't know that it is the worst thing to do, they just know that they've been punished for growling and that wasn't nice for them. Just thought you should know this. It's different if the dog growls at the child persistently just because the child looks at the dog (much like I was yesterday at the cash point by a muzzled collie) - then you may have a point in getting rid of the dog - but you do have to allow for the fact that dogs express themselves in different ways to us."

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redd82 said:
"yes we had a behaviourist and the works. the problem is he is very obidient and incredibly clever so he will do all the tricks and obidience training you ask him to do.

But that's the problem because the aggression will come out of nowhere. For example, my dad waved his arm at the tv the other night and the dog went for him. After 3 years of no problems with my dad.
Of course my OH said the dog didn't,he just barked, but we all saw it.

It's the unpredictability of it that makes it untrainable. You could train him every day for a year and he wouldn't show any problems but then the next day he could try to bite someone who got to close to us."

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I'm worried by this. Firstly, a behaviourist who's trying to help you with an aggression problem shouldn't be teaching obedience and tricks, but instituting a desensitisation programme to gradually desensitise the dog to the things that make him nervous.

Secondly, the incident with your Dad didn't 'come out of nowhere' - the dog is nervous of waving arms and reacted. If the dog had been gradually desensitised to waving arms, that trigger could be avoided.

However. Your DH has had 7 years to work with this dog, and he hasn't done so in any meaningful way. HE has failed this dog - not you. You are putting your child first in what could be a very dangerous situation. This poor dog will be languishing in kennels (likely for months or even years) because your DH failed to work with him, not because you wanted to return him to rescue.

Thanks Shiney, that's really interesting, it would seem obvious wolf/dog packs are hugely different,I was actually getting suckered into his way of thinking there, and it was the only show I watch, so now I've no shows but I would do lots of research before getting a dog of my own

Also I think Laska is bang on above about this situation, well said.

Oh, op, poor you.

If it helps, I did the same thing. When pregnant with my first baby, I had a dog that I adored but she came to us in poor circumstances and had been mistreated by her previous owner. She was aggressive with strangers and terribly protective of me. She was also just unpredictable - even turning on other family members who approached me.

Shortly after the baby arrived, we realised we just couldn't take the risk and went to great lengths to find a home for her in a dog's home specially for her breed. I missed her so much but it had to be done.

If the dog bit the baby you would all feel terrible and you can't spend your life closing doors and panicking about keeping them apart :(