No progress with potty training at nearly four, worried about starting school

[Joyeusse]

Hello, mums! A very upset and stressed mum here - about potty training. My son is 4, starting school in Sept. He's such a sweet lil boy, affectionate and behaving as much as possible for his age. We've been trying the potty training for 2 years now and absolutely no progress at all. I did everything, books, songs, cartoons, all models of potties, took him in the bathroom with us, talked a lot, explained, made him sit, upairy pullups, naked days etc. He says yes, I understand, yes I will, then holds it. He got to sit on a potty for 4 h in a row, its madness. And not even a drop. Then, I get him up, put some undies, 5 min later he would do a pool on the floor. Yesterday he did a poo and he was fine with it, but never ever did he do a pee by his own will. Only a couple of times, after spending hours on the potty and because we were already so upset or he just couldnt hold it anymore. I dont ask you what to do because I honestly know I did everything here. Im only asking if anyone had been through this and how was it with the school? Im so stressed and frustrated, they will probabbly think I never bothered. But the truth is Im at my wits end and it consumes me terribly. And Im afraid it will damage our relation and he will turn into a boy he really isn't, just out of fear or stress because of the potty thing. So, if anybody else experienced such a stressful situation, how long did it take to actually get successful and how was it mamaged at reception? Thank you for reading.

ps yeah I know this won’t be pleasant for you….and it might be hard for a few weeks…but potty training can require very consistent effort on both parts for a long time

Have you tried one of these? The red thing spins round so it’s something fun to aim at!

www.amazon.co.uk/Training-Suction-Cartoon-Trainer-Emerald/dp/B0DB1LNRG3/ref=asc_df_B0DB1LNRG3?mcid=930a4999a6c43eb7b8368d5aee814bfe&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=717280431058&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3594120226375815242&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9209665&hvtargid=pla-2375881768464&hvocijid=3594120226375815242-B0DB1LNRG3-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1&th=1

We are going through the same. And starting school in September. Praise didn't work, nor rewards. What worked with pees is him "racing" daddy. So both peed standing up at the same time. We're still tracking to crack poos. It feels never ending.

@Lemonbutters the op has been trying for a long time! She’s already done all of this.

@Joyeusse I think you are doing the right thing by seeing the GP. All this training for months or years is just ludicrous. It’s waiting until he’s mature enough to understand what he needs to do. I’d not go back to cleaning up after him nor get him to help! Just awful. He will get there but honestly - take a break. Don’t keep stressing and inform school if you need to. People seem to think it’s bad behaviour and you can bully dc into using the potty or toilet. You simply cannot. Sometimes their bodies and senses are not ready.

sorry if someone has already suggested this but have you tried contacting the ERIC charity helpline they were brilliant with us
https://eric.org.uk/helpline/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=9113691281&gbraid=0AAAAADht2Ra5PWicoUA06Vyf1GgvMA7gg&gclid=CjwKCAjwqazPBhALEiwAOuXqdOiAZzl3i98YLGwOs0FVqkxERYZ5n4Plh7By3ESwlJ9nvPAgiAUZ0BoC2AQQAvD_BwE

I'd get him checked for constipation too. It doesn't matter if he poos every day, they can still be constipated but it's just like the excess coming out
What do his poos look like?

He is not constipated. He has healthy poo, he loves food and it shows in the quantity coming out. Never had problems with that, he even did a very healthy one in the potty the other day (sadly, his only sucess in that matter).

Thank you. You seem to understand perfectly well what we are going through. I got some interesting new views from this topic, and I also understand why most moms think I might have missed something there. I haven't, it's just a nut hard to crack and I won't crack it at all costs. :) Hopefully, something constructive will come out with the GP. Thank you again for hearing me out!

I know this may be frowned upon but what about outside.Is there local woods? Wee boys love peeing outside up against a tree
Obviously i'm suggesting this as a short term thing😂

All great advice I would echo

I wouldn’t use a potty with an older child, straight to toilet with a toilet seat.
Dont react, act like it’s no big deal when he has an accident but get him to start cleaning himself up and changing his clothes (with your help).

@Joyeusse I’ll be interested in what the GP thinks so do report back. I remember being absolutely frustrated with DD as she was starting nursery. I simply didn’t understand why a child who was obviously intelligent just didn’t care about doing this age related marker. It’s baffling.

Similar, I eventually decided to bin the nappies. It took a few days but they realised wet pants were uncomfortable and moved on.

This is where we received conflicting advice from ERIC tbh.

We were told to completely ditch the nappies, unless your child is a poo withholder.

If they do withhold bowel movements then they will do so without nappies, and this will lead to constipation and this can cause more issues with toilet training and creating toileting avoidance.

When we asked what are we supposed to do about this we didn't get any meaningful support.

@rescuingadog some dc truly don’t care about wet pants. It’s doesn’t stop repeat wet pants. Being ready to toilet and ask for the toilet is what matters.

Maybe but in answer to the question what worked for you, that worked for me. It might not work for everyone.

Do this and ask him to put a Cheerio in the bowl and ask him to try and hit it with his wee. Works a treat!

My second son was almost 4 by the time he was trained. He had quietly decided, on his own, that he was only going to use the toilet after his fourth birthday 🙈

I tried all that you had tried, and was at my wits end. In the end it was tough love that solved it…. I explained calmly to him that choosing to poo himself was absolutely disgusting, and showed him what the contents of the nappy looked like each change. I also made him watch me change his new siblings nappies, and told him nappies are for little babies and not big boys like him. Might have been harsh but he was toilet trained in less than 36 hours of starting this approach 😅.

It wasn’t that he couldn’t do it - he was choosing to not use the toilet as to him the nicey nicey approach I’d tried for 18 months was just teaching him ‘oh well, don’t worry there’s no rush, pooing yourself is fine’. I honestly think if I hadn’t had gone down this route he’d have took another 6 months.

I got my ds dry in a week when we went on holiday with my parents, he idolised his grandad who had bladder problems & whenever grandad went to the toilet when we were out & about ds tagged on & joined in. Maybe stop making such a big thing about the toilet & just get him into a routine of taking him before you go out & say if you go to the supermarket or to a cafe with toilets, take him to the toilet there. Can you whip off his night time nappy early before he has had chance for his early morning big wee & take him to the toilet, maybe if he is bursting you may have some success & you can build from there. You used to be able to buy training pants that were lined with terry towelling so the child could feel the wet if they had an accident, I don't know if you can still buy them, have a Google & see if you can get them.

My daughter was quite late to train. We had a number of attempts that we abandoned as it was clear that she was not ready and becoming distressed.

Eventually we went with a really gentle approach, kept her in pull ups but took her to the toilet at the first signs she might need the toilet. It took a while to work these out but we figured out roughly how often she was going and went from there. She wasn't a potty fan, so we used a toilet seat and footstall which was better for her. She had a reward chart that included things like sitting on the toilet and washing her hands, so she was racking up stickers and getting praise every toilet visit whether she went or not. When we eventually caught her having a wee on the toilet we heaped on the praise. We took her out the pull ups when we were consistently getting her to wee in the toilet, and whilst she had a few accidents (and still very occasionally does a year later) she was pretty consistent from then on.

I found having her in the pull ups made it less stressful for me as there wasn't all the cleaning up side of things. It is bloody difficult, but I think it does take some children longer than others for it to click. Our daughter struggles with interoception, and still struggles to interpret the signals meaning she gets little warning she needs to go.

We spoke to our health visitor who recommended this approach, so you could speak to your HV, or alternatively take a look on the ERIC website or call their helpline as they offer advice in this area.

Hi op I was going to post much of what this pp did.

My Ds is now in his teens and we DID eventually get there.

My ds also had a speech delay, was slow to train, is the most delightful boy and has an Autism diagnosis now.

Many autistic children as the pp have said struggle a lot with sensory signals. They just don’t get the messages from their bodies that neurotypical dc do.

In the end my ds was dry after a gentle calm summer where we sat in the garden almost every day with nothing on his bottom half at all and potty very close by. When we saw the wee we said “run to the potty”! He learned to run, recognise the signs and started to get there just before the wee.

He had several years of an accidents here and there at school and home even after training but was reliably dry by 7. The autism explained a LOT about why he struggled so much to train. Sending you so much support op.

This explains how schools are not allowed to turn away dc who are not potty trained

www.lambeth.gov.uk/lambeths-send-local-offer/im-parent-or-carer/early-years-send-support/early-years-advice-activities-guides/toilet-training-advice

Hi OP - I haven’t read every single comment but your message early on about wanting to hear from parents in a similar situation. We are 18 months into no nappies for our 4 year old in the day and it’s been a ride. Constant accidents, some days 5 accidents and others none or 1. I know how you feel, it’s frustrating and so worrying.

Dont leave him on the potty to try & catch wees, I’ve been there and kid myself that it’s to give my daughter the feeling of success in the hope it makes her want more praise. It’s actually just manufactured success which isn’t the same. Our friend said to us - just stick with it so DD knows there is no going back which is what we have done. Does he mind being wet? As you might need to just accept the accidents and let him realise he doesn’t like it, getting changed isn’t fun etc. our DD loves specific outfits so we have had to say ‘oh no we will have to put your outfit in the wash now’ and put a less favoured outfit on. Also how are his bowels?

Have you spoken to the continence team? It sounds like the whole thing might be a bit stressful for everyone at the moment. It might be good for him to hear it from someone else. Have you spoken with school yet? It’s been on my mind and when I spoke to her new school they were fab, really reassuring.

How can a young child sit on a potty for 4 hours! Did you hold him down or something? This sounds cruel.