No progress with potty training at nearly four, worried about starting school

[Joyeusse]

Hello, mums! A very upset and stressed mum here - about potty training. My son is 4, starting school in Sept. He's such a sweet lil boy, affectionate and behaving as much as possible for his age. We've been trying the potty training for 2 years now and absolutely no progress at all. I did everything, books, songs, cartoons, all models of potties, took him in the bathroom with us, talked a lot, explained, made him sit, upairy pullups, naked days etc. He says yes, I understand, yes I will, then holds it. He got to sit on a potty for 4 h in a row, its madness. And not even a drop. Then, I get him up, put some undies, 5 min later he would do a pool on the floor. Yesterday he did a poo and he was fine with it, but never ever did he do a pee by his own will. Only a couple of times, after spending hours on the potty and because we were already so upset or he just couldnt hold it anymore. I dont ask you what to do because I honestly know I did everything here. Im only asking if anyone had been through this and how was it with the school? Im so stressed and frustrated, they will probabbly think I never bothered. But the truth is Im at my wits end and it consumes me terribly. And Im afraid it will damage our relation and he will turn into a boy he really isn't, just out of fear or stress because of the potty thing. So, if anybody else experienced such a stressful situation, how long did it take to actually get successful and how was it mamaged at reception? Thank you for reading.

One of the few posts you haven’t rejected is the one say “give up for a few months”. Literally everyone else is saying that it takes more than a week, and lots of kids find it hard, you are giving up after a few days to a week, no wonder the kid is struggling.

I followed health vistor, GP, and nursery advises and things didnt go well at all, my child feel stressed and acting completely different. They all said stop if it's not working, no professional says insist despite all the bad signs. Perhaps you never struggled and you never asked them. I am not rejecting advice, I know what we really tried. I'd probably write a novel if I had to give all the information. It often takes only 2 days of unsuccesfull tries to get constipated or traumatized. If you know exactly why my child is struggling, please come over and be the hero. Otherwise, keep the judgemental comments to yourself, you picked the wrong parent.

If you think there is a genuine problem, go back to the GP and ask for a referral. You can also speak with the ERIC helpline

https://eric.org.uk

I’m trying to explain that lots of us had lots of difficulties with toilet training. In some case it take months or even years for our kids to “get” it consistently, but starting then stopping again is going to be confusing, and yes there are tears and holding and accidents, but you persist. I’m not picking on you, I’m actually trying to help - you have been quite rude to quite a few people trying to help, so perhaps it’s best if we all leave you to it.

Best if you just leave it and go. I wasn't rude to anyone. You, on the other hand...

We didn’t have this issue but we tried for much much longer than a week. It took months and it turned out he was afraid of falling in the toilet but had never told us, even though we’d asked.

I think you need to try for longer than a week. With you having trouble for so long have you tried asking for a referral to an occupational therapist?

No referral as each time I asked for help I was told to just stand by and all kids are different etc. Or, I was always told there is a long waiting line and by the time someone will see us, he will be just there already. But he is not. I will ask for a refferal to an occupational therapist today, thank you for your suggestion!

@Joyeusse Well my GP said stop and don’t talk about it. Carry on with life and change nappies in silence. No judgement and no talk about poo or wee! You honestly have nothing to lose.

That's what everybody has told me as well. Thank you.

Your message gives me hopes, thanks so much for sharing! It feels like my boy is deeply affected and turns into someone else. We also struggled for a couple of years with the speech delay, to say the least, so it hurts to see him upset and losing his amazing progress. May I ask how old was your daughter?

Had a similar problem with one of my children. Have you tried a star chart? Put a star on the chart every time all goes well, and promise something nice if he/she get 2 weeks of stars. There will probably still be accidents for a while, but it does work eventually. Good luck!

Why is the no pants/trousers necessary? I know it's part of the Oh Crap method. I just put both of mine in pants at just turned 2 and trained them in a few days. I've always been curious what difference no pants is meant to make? At least with pants on I felt we could have more company whilst I was stuck in the house!

I have been in the same position as you and it's really hard. I stopped pants in the end and put him in pull ups, the cars ones where they feel wet. I then took him to the toilet at set times during the day to try and get him in to a routine of going and just changed the pull up if I needed to without saying anything about it being wet but if it was dry I praised him. Eventually he started going when I took him and I moved him into pants when he had more dry pull up days. I think some struggle more thank others and for the parent it's really hard as most children catch on quite quickly.

Do you have a garden? Would you be willing to let him start feeling control by letting him wee outside against a tree - like Daddy...
Just to make it less of a big deal and more, "see, everyone does this".

OP, it is crazy that you are thinking of acting on the post that talks about giving up for 2 months. The child of the poster who recommended that was 2 nearly 3. Your child is 4! You need to be trying for longer periods of time and ditching the starting and stopping and seeking continence and OT advice.

So that you can see as they start going, and pop them on the potty fast enough that at least some of their wee gets in, which then feels like a win, rather than the wetting themselves. Also pants can feel like nappies so it feels safe to wee in them.

We tried, he's been promised everything under the sun, from star chart to really all that he loves. And we kept our word on the very few occasions he was successful. He probably wants to do it, but as I understand from a few replies here, he simply doesn't feel when it's coming and, in the end, it all looks like he doesn't care. The star chart is resting in the drawer. He wasn't interested anymore.

Most dc are not trained at just past their second birthdays! What use is this info to the op? Her dc is 4. She needs a different strategy!

I would recommend speaking to ERIC just to make sure you're covering all bases, contact your HV they may be able to put you onto one as that's what they did for me. I found their advice to be right for the right child but they couldn't help me and my son. They were fantastic about talking about how constipation can present though and sometimes it presents as an unwillingness to go.

However, DS is not potty trained and he is 7. He is autistic and has sensory challenges in bathrooms, but also internally as well.

He can't always tell when he needs to go, and then when he can tell, he can't make himself do it.

All of the years we have spent trying to get this down (5 in total) have undoubtedly created bathroom trauma and aversions.

School have been fantastic about it. In fact he doesn't really do poos at school.

We have somewhat cracked weeing. He will wee in a toilet if one is available to him immediately but if there are any barriers (doors/stairs/having to ask for help) then he just won't overcome those obstacles.

We cracked weeing by having weeing contests. Sounds really gross but I put blue food colouring in the toilet and we took turns at who could make the water the most green. I eventually had to swap to a water bottle and pretend I was weeing standing up as he just would not sit on the toilet, but it became an easy win for him. We also put shaving foam in the toilet, sometimes with blobs of food colouring in it and had wash-it-away competitions.

School have been completely non-judgemental and I was upfront about it with them and we arranged an intimate care plan with them. They had all the kids in a routine so it encouraged DS to go at school anyway.

I would not stress about this if I were you. The stress isn't serving you. Don't fear judgement when you know you're trying your best. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

he simply doesn't feel when it's coming and

Look up interoception.

We all have 8 senses, touch, taste, sight, hearing, smelling, proprioception, vestibular and interoception.

You don't have to be autistic to have hypo or hyper sensitivities to any of these senses.

Interoception is the feeling of knowing what's going on inside our bodies.

Sometimes it is just a lack of this sensation, sometimes there are some medical conditions like an elongated bowel that go unnoticed that cause issues with weeing and pooing and having sensation around that area which is why it isn't a daft idea to get the GP or HV aware of this issue as well as everything you have tried so far.

I can't thank you enough for your reply. It sheds a lot of light and you're so understanding and supportive. I also feel your efforts with your DS, I'm sure you do a great job there as the progress shows. I will discuss with the GP as we managed to book an appointment and will read about interoception. Again, really helpful! Hugs and best of luck to you and to us! :)

But it's a boy how did you not teach him to pee standing up like it's the best thing about having a penis!!

Hi OP, I started potty training with both of mine before they were 3 but my son took a full year to be reliable. My daughter was much easier and I think some kids just get it faster than others.

My advice would be to persevere and just not to put him back in daytime nappies/pull ups - no matter what. I don’t think a week is long enough to crack it and they need to be confident at school to go to the toilet on their own, wipe, pants/trousers up, wash hands etc. I don’t think you’ll have enough time if you delay trying again until the summer holidays.

I would buy him big boy pants (with his favourite characters on), get rid of the potty and go straight to the toilet with a kids seat and steps. Keep very neutral and light when he has an accident and just prepare yourself for lots of cleaning. I wouldn’t even suggest to go to the toilet to begin with and let him have accidents so he gets used to the sensation. If he goes on the toilet, big praise and a new toy/sweeties - whatever he can be bribed with. He will get it and I promise he won’t be traumatised by you pushing him on this. It needs to be done and unfortunately it’s been left quite late for any other approaches in my opinion.

None of our 9 ever used a potty they didn't like it and toilet trained quickly, our youngest twins are 2 and have been using the toilet themselves for about 4 + months. They only wear night nappies just in case. Tho by accident a week ago they were put to bed in there knickers and we're still dry in the morning so going to start properly with night time soon

Thank you for all the ideas. We actually tried everything you mentioned. He has plenty of undies, various types, fav characters, days of the week, colours etc. We tried toilet but never ever did something there. Only the potty was slightly successful, if we can call it that way. If asked, he clearly says he prefers potty.

From now on just remove all nappies and he goes cold turkey. Have the potty there visible. If he makes a mess he helps clean it up.

Make sure he uses the toilet before he goes anywhere. If he keeps making a mess I’d start introducing some gentle consequences.

At that age they’re old enough to know