Nursery won’t help with pants - is this normal?

[Mel2023]

We’re on day 6 of potty training and it’s DS first day back at preschool. He’s 2yrs 5months. We’ve been off and had 5 days at home so took the time to start potty training. He’s been showing signs for a while. Beforehand, I told preschool that we were going to potty train asked was there a certain way they do things or things he has to learn before coming back to nursery, and they said no they will follow our lead and just to bring loads of changes of clothes.

We called them last Friday because we’d introduced pants after 2.5 very successful days with nothing on, where he’d used the potty consistently with only 2 accidents. Introducing pants meant he went completely back over and started just treating them like a nappy. I asked if they were ok with him still coming in while he was having all these accidents - they said yes - and I again checked if we needed to do anything specific. No.

Then today we took him in for his first day back. I told them that he’s done very well, has done so much better in the last couple of days since he started with pants, and didn't even have one single accident yesterday, and we even took him out the house for a few hours. I told them that he knows when he needs to go but he can’t hold it very well, so he may start to go in his pants a little on the way to the toilet. I asked them to make it clear to him which staff member(s) he had to tell when he needed a wee, make sure he knows where the toilets are (sometimes he will just take himself if he’s really desperate) and remind him/ask him if he needs to go regularly as well because no doubt he’ll get distracted playing with his friends and not realise.

DH picked him up tonight and he hasn’t had a single wee in the toilet, he’s wet through 6 pairs of trousers and 7 pants. I expected some accidents but not this. They then said they won’t take his pants down for him and that’s the problem as he can’t do that himself - so he’s basically stood by the toilet peeing himself with them watching! I’m furious. Of course he can’t take his own pants down. He’s 2 and is barely a week into potty training! Of course we’ll work on that but it absolutely should not be a barrier to him using the toilet. The better he gets at holding it will give him more time to work on getting them down.

I spoke to them before we started training about anything we needed to know from their end, and they said nothing and that they’d do what we do. Well, we help him take his pants down. They won’t.

It would have been useful to know that bit of info. Is this usual nursery behaviour? Are they not allowed to help him with his pants? Until 2 weeks ago they were changing his nappy and they of course changed him out his wet clothes today, so I’m not sure how that makes sense!

This. Thanks.

And to everyone saying he’s not ready and to stop - do I just put him back in nappies and ignore him when he comes to me asking for the toilet or goes to sit on it himself? Or, as he just did, wakes up shouting us and and asks to use the toilet even when he has a nappy on as he’s been asleep since 7:30?

Being able to dress and undress himself is a key skill at this age. Does he not already do this as part of your normal routine at morning/night or before when changing nappies? If not, it’s a good time to start. Yes it takes time, but it’s the only way he’ll learn.

I think one thing you’re overlooking is at home you are on a 1:1 ratio with him. At 2, he is probably on a 1:5 ratio with staff. Staff cannot physically get to him the second he needs a wee every time, if any time, like you can. They may be avoiding a serious injury happening, stopping a child hurting another, changing a child, reading a book at the opposite side of the room, etc. Yes of course they would have changed his clothes for his nappy/wet accident. The thing to consider here, is a nappy change can wait 30 seconds for them to get there. Can your child hold a wee for 30 seconds when they need to go? That is why they need to be able to pull their bottoms/pants down themselves or this will not improve.

How can they stand by and watch a kid wet his underwear?!
Sound like sadists.
Report them and get your kid into a decent nursery or look after him yourself.
No one will care for your kid as well as you will.
They must be neglectful in other ways.

I'm sure they've not just stood and watched him wet right by the toilet. Could it be other reasons, too engrossed in play, wanting to finish a story, doing art, any of these reasons could of resulted in wetting. Think about it at home he's on a 1:1 basis, at nursery (depending on size ect) there's usually 2 key groups with 12 children in and a main key worker and a helper keyworker who's the afternoon/morning main, so there's another thing aswell going from 1:1 to 2:12 there will be children of all varying abilities and if this one over here needs more supervision than that child over there then moments may get missed.

I think you should start teaching him to pull his own clothing up and down at this age he would be starting to anyway, the keyworkers can remind and encourage toileting but your child will also go on their own.

Children at this age have accidents it could also be your child being in a different environment maybe hes not ready for pants at nursery yet, my son who's 2 years 6 months had his first ever accident last week as he was too busy looking at a book and he stood to say I need a wee but it was too late.

Ask to see the toileting policy, and if it says in there they don't pull pants up or down there's not a lot you can really do and will be down to you teaching your child to pull them up and down.

We sent our kids in just joggers for the first few weeks as it was easier for them. Told nursery why obviously.

Wow there are some harsh responses here.

It sounds like he is ready and you've already done the hard bit so absolutely don't go back to nappies and start again. He is not too young. Yes kids are potty training later nowadays but that is a recent thing and more down to lifestyle changes than their natural ability to learn.

Nursery should be supporting you. I disagree with posters saying it's not their job. It's not their job to do it all but they should support you.

Also I didn't put either of mine in pants until we started potty training so I'm not sure how everyone expects kids to have mastered this skill before potty training. How can they practice with pants if they are still wearing nappies?!

He's so little. That's awful OP. No advice as I don't know what it's like these days

Before potty training did you get him confident in removing his clothes?
Are there trouser styles that he find easier than other?
can he go commando for a few weeks?
I made my kids soft trousers with boxer short elastic waistbands, easy to pull up and down.

being able to undress and dress is a key part of potty training prep.

That said it think it must really have knocked his confidence having adults watch him but not help him.

No of course not but don't expect nursery to provide the same level of attention 1:1 as at home.

Of course you don’t go back to nappies. Try just baggy joggers with no underwear if nursery will allow that, if they insist on undies size them up and lots of practice at home. Also, talk to them! PP are right here that it might not be a policy per se as just a practically thing- if his need to go is urgent then a staff member might not be able to get there quick enough to help if they’re busy with other kids and at a ratio of 1:5. It will improve as he masters the pants himself and is able to hold it a bit longer.

Generally in the past parents were advised to go at least a week at home to toilet train . And always have clothing the child themselves could take off.

Why not put on loose tracksuit so he can pull them down ?

I've never said I expect 1:1. Of course I understand he’ll have accidents at nursery because staff can’t get to him in time or can’t drop everything just for my child the moment he announces he needs a wee. Or he’ll be having too much fun he’ll forget to tell them or go. I completely get that. What I don’t understand is them telling me that they’ve been taking him to the toilet in 30-45min intervals (their suggestion not mine, I wouldn’t expect that) and also reminding him regularly, and surely if they’re already with him and he needs to go they can help initially until he masters getting his pants down.

He’s been wearing loose clothes and pants since day 1. I bought loads of loose joggers in a size up in preparation for beginning potty training. And I even asked if he could go without pants but they said no.

So you know what you need to work on now.I don't think it's outlandish to expect a 2.5 year old to pull his pants down.

Have him in pull-ups, it's a half way house.

I think being able to tell you when he needs a wee is part of it but not all of it. Personally, I would find the idea of my child having so many accidents at nursery distressing, so would do pull ups for a while. There's no rush.

No we’ve never really worked on clothes - although he does sometimes like to try and we encourage it - but generally he hates getting dressed with a passion. Usually because it’s early mornings and we’ve had to wake him up and he’s in a grump. It’s how I know he can wriggle himself out of a pull up when I’m not looking when he’s angry at my for putting him in one. So I didn’t think pants would w e too much of a leap if he can do that. It won’t take him long but I’d hope he has support at nursery while he’s learning to do it fully. He’s wearing loose joggers in a size too big, and loose bigger pants. Unfortunately he has to wear pants at nursery they’ve said no to commando.

I don't agree with that at all. At two years and three months my son's bladder control was excellent so we potty trained him. He was extremely ready as he was dry within two days and only had one accident. He was even dry at night!

I wasn't going to keep letting him wet himself in a nappy (which he was getting upset about) just because his co-ordination re pulling down his pants wasn't perfect.

See to him pull ups are nappies. He’s been in them for over a year as he was such a wriggler we never got his nappies on properly and he leaked, so we found pull ups much better. So I’d be worried he just thought we were putting him back in nappies and regress, and also he doesn’t like wearing them and asks for them off. He can take those off himself though! Can wriggle out of them when he’s not happy I’ve put him in them, so I’m hoping pants will be mastered quickly!

If he can get out of a pull up then he can definitely manage baggy joggers and underwear. He’s just choosing not to try because toddlers! Have you tried lots of praise for being a big boy? Would nursery be willing to do him a sticker chart?

Can you have a meeting with the manager OP to discuss properly? As I say, our nursery are more than happy to support children with their clothing for toileting where needed until they've developed those skills themselves. It's quicker and easier than changing nappies after all?!

I'm really shocked at lots of the replies here, particularly people saying you shouldn't bother to toilet train if a child can't manipulate their clothing independently. That's a completely different set of skills from bladder control for example. As I've said before, my DC2 is a good example of this - day toilet trained without much issue at 2yrs 9 months within a few days, night dry after about two weeks. However at turning 3 still sometimes needs support with his clothing because his motor skills are not age expected due to joint hypermobility and a hip condition. Do people really think I should put him back in nappies?! (And a pull up is a nappy! Nothing wrong with them - it was mostly what my DC2 wore before being toilet trained - but they're nappies.)

But if he isn't able to pull them up and down yet you need to find alternative clothing. The nursery has 5:1 if lucky.

When did the nurseries have capacity to do this because they didn't 16 years ago.

I feel like being able to pull up and down your pants is a fundamental part of potting training and I didn't start my guys training until they could do it. Then I just did joggers and no pants for about a week to make it easier.

Also- don't laugh at me, but have you shown him how? To hook his thumbs in and how to pull them up? I remember feeling a bit thick the first time someone suggested that. In my head I hadn't really considered it.

@LegoHouse274, I totally agree with you and I work with children this age in a very busy environment. But somehow we still manage to help children with their pants, trousers and washing hands.

I'm worried parents are thinking 'my child needs to be able to do all this before I potty train them'. No, no, no. We're so happy when parents train, so well done OP. I have nearly 4 yos and last year one who was well past 4 still not potty trained (that child got it immediately and yes, he could even put socks and shoes on before his mum could be bothered).

Worked in childcare for over 25 years and never ever heard that. Totally unacceptable that they wouldn't help him with his pants they effectively set him up to fail. I would ask to speak to the manager and for a copy of the toilet training policy. You've done everything right consulting them and sharing his progress.
Poor wee soul have been so confused why they weren't helping him.
Hope you get the answers you need.