4 year old poos in nappy - do I bluff to his future school?

[1BunOldie]

Argh! Help! To my son I'm pretend I'm calm but he starts school in September and will only poo in a nappy. He will wee on a toilet happily (we have integrated child/adult seats). He hangs on until he's home from nursery to poo. He tells me he is scared that the poo will come out over the top of the loo and him. I am panicking because I understand that school can ask you defer if not potty trained. His future school have asked us to fill in forms; there is a question asking whether he is potty trained. Should I bluff or confess? We have tried everything that we know might work: bribery with sweets and a trip to Hamley's toy shop when he succeeds; nappy in a potty to catch the poo; explaining that the poo will not touch him. Advice gratefully received.

OP, do you just have a normal toilet seat on the loo? My DD found the loo much easier to use when we got a 3 part lid - 'little seat for my little bottom, big seat for your big bottom, mummy' ...she was much steadier on the little seat and there wasn't such a gaping hole behind her. Might help?

Yes they are kitty, the teacher won't have time.

They are expected to wipe their own bums but they do get help if needed. My DS is in his first year of school and has only just started pooing in toilets. We had help from the HV and then the school nurse once he was in school. DS was also scared of the toilet and it's taken some time to crack. School were nothing but helpful. I wouldn't bluff innthe question - it's there because they know there may be some issues with kids.

We had this, it was an awful time. DD was scared that the poo was going to come out of the toilet.

What worked for us was doing it in the nappy but only in the bathroom, then in the bathroom with a nappy laid out in the potty, then a padded toilet seat with the nappy stretched out under it, then moving the nappy gradually so one day it missed and plopped straight in. After that she was fine. It took about a week.

I had to be very matter of fact, this is what we're going to do, no emotion and it worked. I was over the moon!

Good luck, he'll get there.

Please ignore all the advice about forcing the issue and 'being cruel to be kind'. You're doing exactly the right thing in acknowledging his fears and being patient. Trying to insist risks causing much longer term problems. Please do talk to the school - they will be able to point you towards support if the problem is still persisting in September.

Assuming you're looking at a maintained school or Academy, they're not allowed to refuse to have a child for this reason; nor can they insist a parent comes in to deal with toileting.

My son was exactly the same. In the end up it was only being tough with him that worked.
He was up at 2am in tears and needing a poo when I told him that I couldn't do it for him, and the only way to make it better was to sit on the toilet and do a poo by himself
it took a good ten minutes of tears (plus a few years to get to this position!) But he managed it. And he's never looked back.
(He's 5 now and coming towards the end of his reception year)
Good luck.

Be honest with the school. My DD would only poo in a nappy until she was almost 5 (2 terms into reception year). There were other factors to consider (too long to go into here) but in short the teacher and TA could not have been kinder. They took her off to the loo and cleaned her up afterwards.

But you might have things sorted by then. Good luck!

Fortunately he's going to quite a progressive large academy so I don't think we'll get a frosty response from the school. It's a relief to know they can't refuse which takes the pressure off. Realise this may upset some but I won't be forcing. I'm determined that I won't be part of him doing something essentially to please us. He has to learn to conquer his fears himself on his own terms with gentle persuasion and support from us of course. Brilliant practical suggestions, especially SleepFreeZone. I will show him Hamley's on YouTube then will dangle some pictures! The other tips have been great too. Thanks folks- I feel much saner.

We had similar but cracked it by school full time. Poo in the potty if that helps, even with a nappy lining it to start.
Poo goes to pooland is a good idea. We had poo parties. No idea what they actually were but just laughs and fun and cheers on the loo. Bubble blowing while sat on the loo makes the muscles work. We did imaginary as well as real bubbles where dd blew a huge pretend bubble, I got caught it it, you couldn't hear me talk and then a dramatic pop.
What alcohol or other treat you give yourself after days of this is entirely up to you.

Could you make up a 'thing' which you drop in the loo to stop it over-flowing? The only reason I say this is because recently my 5 year old had a difficult poo which hurt her (Easter holidays, too much bread and chocolate, not enough fruit, veg & water!), so she got anxious when needing the next one. I told her it was hard because she hadn't drunk enough water, so she sat on the toilet (feet perched on a stool to 'help') and drank a glass of water. The poo came out and didn't hurt, which was nothing to do with the water, but she believed it was, so I'm wondering if you can drop a vitamin pill, or a drop of food colouring or something? Make a big deal of being excited that "grandma/someone else has sent this special stuff which stops it overflowing....

It is lying to your child but I'm all for 'white lies' when it's for their own good ultimately. Sometimes it's about being inventive and breaking the initial fear so you can get to a place where everyone is calm and you can address it once and for all.

If it was me (which it was, a few years ago), I would go to Hamleys now, straight away.

Explain to him that you are going to choose a present now, because you know he is going to be able to do it, and that the present will wait in the bathroom until he manages a poo on the toilet.

I bought one big present and a few small presents and I put them in the bathroom right in front of the toilet. The big present was won for the very first poo on the toilet, and it was a huge incentive, then the little ones were for subsequent successes, but to be honest, once the first time was over we were pretty much away, and I tailed off to just a sticker on the jumper and then nothing at all in the space of about 2 weeks.

I definitely think having the actual toy waiting in the bathroom helped loads - big incentive, instant gratification, plus going and buying it first showed I believed we would do it, and that boosted confidence a bit. We actually cracked it the same day we bought the toy.

Good luck, I can remember how stressful this all is.

Things have changed and the law has also changed regarding children going to school in nappies. They are no longer allowed to refuse children if theu are in nappies and they are no longer allowed to get parents to come to change them.

Don't bribe. Talk.
To him he has a very real fear and some sweets won't solve that. Spend some time showing him it won't overflow, make up a huge jug of coloured water and show him that no matter how much you pour down it doesn't overflow. If you have to let him watch you do a poo, do it! Treat him like the small competent person that he is.

I would try continuing to allow the nappy but only in the bathroom as someone else said. Then, with him watching, empty the poo into the toilet and flush it away. No pressure to move on to the next stage - just let him see that it doesn't come back up or toilet overflow or anything untoward happening. Maybe move on to getting him to flush the toilet then to help tip it from nappy to toilet and so on. Maybe it might help him see there's no chance of it coming up over the toilet. Good luck

Some more fantastic tips. Thanks. Especially the one about buying the present now!

Hi OP, I have had the same issue with my DD2 who also starts school on September. It is not unusual and so frustrating for them as well as us. I have found the HV very helpful. We have had some success lately, scared to jinx it by saying too much! I felt so much more relived just after asking for help tbh.

Combination of bribery and encouragement and a bit of a push (metaphorical!) into pooing on the toilet.

We had this with my dd, in the end I ditched the nappies and she did get constipated which resulted in her having some movicol. She had one sachet and was so desperate to poo she had to go on the toilet, we had a few tears and then that was it.

I would ditch the nappies, am all for letting them conquer their own fears but occasionally children do need a little bit of a push as well.

Yes, should have said my DD is on regular movicol (started while she was still in nappies).

If your son is a fan of Do You Know on Cbeebies, there's an episode that explains how a toilet works - 3.5yo DS now tells me about the cistern every day!