Successful potty training at 18 months with a child who doesn't immediately 'get it'?

[lawyerwannabefarmer]

I know the trend in this country is to potty train much later, but in a lot of other countries around the world where nappies are used, they potty train around 18 months and therefore it does appear to be physically possible, albeit with more effort from the caregivers.

I tried elimination communication with my son and it was pretty effective but I gave it up because I couldn't read his signs and it was taking up too much time. Nevertheless I kept putting DS on the potty at nappy change times and he frequently pooed in it, and recently we had weeks when he would poo in the potty in the morning and be clean for the rest of the day. At some point he became resistant though so I gave it a break.

In the meantime, my EC-ed baby has forgotten all concept of how to wee on demand (I guess it was more of an instinct when he was a baby) and seems to have developed a preference for weeing and pooing while standing up!

I've read a bunch of potty training books, including Tracey Hogg (Baby Whisperer)'s book on training from 9 months, as well as loads of discussion forums, and am keen to give it a go now even if it's more work for me.

As per instructions, we have been nappy free at home and DS (currently 17 months) has been weeing all over the place and done a few poos on the floor too, gross. Luckily hard wood so I'm not too bothered about the wees. With a bit of bribery he's made friends with the potty again and 'gets' doing poos in it but seems totally unaware of weeing until it's shooting forth. He does seem totally astonished and delighted by the puddles he's producing though, and very proud of himself when he discovers he's done something in the potty.

Sorry for the long OP! My question is: did you potty train around this age and was it a success? For those for whom it was eventually a success, did your child seem to get it very quickly or was it a slow learning process? We've been nappy free at home for about a week now, but DS went back to nursery yesterday which will probably reverse the process a bit, although they are putting him on the potty at each nappy change.

It's actually pretty simple, if a child is dry through the day at a particularly young age (by this I mean say 18 months and younger) then generally speaking it's the parents who are trained and not the child. I have a friend who started training at 2 years. Nine months on she is in the same situation of taking him to the toilet every half hour or so. He poos at the same time every day. If left to his own volition he simply poos and wees in his pull-ups. I'm sure he has some understanding by now but just isn't interested.

In terms of knowing if he is making progress, your DS should start holding his wees for longer and indicate a need to sit on the potty.

Either way I think it's really up to you what you do with your own child as long as you are not pressuring or shaming him.

We took a similar approach to you in offering DD a potty at nappy changes from a baby. I called it EC-lite. I was much more open to being parent led second time around having waited for these mythical "signs" till DS was over 3. When we finally gave up waiting he got it in a couple of weeks despite the lack of signs.

We did a couple of weeks nappy free at 16 months, with taking DD to the potty regularly. We decided it wasn't for us at that point, but the week after we put her back in nappies she did start asking for the potty for pees (she already had been for poos). It wasn't a bad experience or anything, quite freeing in a way, we were only clearing up one or two pees a day. The main reason we stopped is that she did seem to be needing a pee every hour, and that isn't always convenient.

She's 22 months now, still mostly wearing pull-ups but mostly not using them. I've never been so glad we're on the PT path as when she had a D&V bug recently - she was able to ask for the toilet in time about 19/20, including mid night eruptions. Even though she's not fully PT (and I think that's more down to our laziness than her inability), it's a success as far as I'm concerned. No icky nappies to clear up, no wrestling a toddler onto the changing mat, just change the odd wet pull-up if we forget to take her and she doesn't ask.

I'd keep putting him on the potty regularly whether in nappies or not. Less to clear up, he gets the idea of where pees are supposed to go, and he starts to get out of the habit of just going wherever/whenever. I was under the impression this is the way it's done in early PT cultures?

Oh, and you might want to try with clothes on. DD is used to peeing in the open air, so she's much less likely to pee when dressed!

You are right when you say there is no right way to go about it.

Some can do it early, some can't.

But your inference that some parents do it late because of laziness grates. Especially when you so far have not potty trained, but have just read about it.

Thisisyoursong -so what do you call it when a child under two years asks for the toilet when they need it and doesn't have accidents ? This is my experience, and plenty of others in this country and round the world have this experience too. My children's nurseries agreed with my interpretation too! Not all children will successfully train before the age of two, and many many parents in this country are not interested in trying, because they share your beliefs and/or have no interest in cleaning up accidents for a few days/weeks. That is not to say that the children are not trained, however, just because of your interpretation of your friend.

I could equally generalise that I have a friend who never did any potty training, and expected her children to one day magically request the toilet with no accidents ever. They didn't ever ask, although they did eventually come out of nappies a few days before they started school at nearly 5 when she finally got rid of the nappies after the HV pointed out that in many cases the parent has to take a more active role. Over 3 children her approach didn't change. She probably would have said what you did, but the 5 yr old did have wetting accidents at school sometimes, as lots of children do occasionally irrespective of when they were out of nappies. Maybe she considered this later removal of nappies with no poo on her carpet success? Lots of people do something in between her approach and mine. It would be just as rude and unnecessary for me to say all people who leave children in this way are misguided and have their children soiling themselves unnecessarily for years, as it is for you and others to say the parents are trained not the child and we should all leave our poor children alone until they are 'ready'. Parents and children differ. The OP is seeking support on her approach.

Oh and if we're using anecdotal evidence, then your friend's situation could just as we'll show that she started too late (waited until 2 when they are opinionated and argumentative generally), and that pull-ups are a really unhelpful and ineffective potty training aid because they are just nappies and children will treat them as such. However, there will be plenty of anecdotes of children who trained age 2 quickly and/or using pull-ups...

But your inference that some parents do it late because of laziness grates. Especially when you so far have not potty trained, but have just read about it."

^^this

I tried getting DD to use the potty from about 18 months, but she simply wasn't interested and just didn't get it. A year later we tried again and it took just 3 days!

MIL maintains that SIL was out of nappies by 13 months (rose tinted spectacles methinks), but she had loads of accidents so I don't really counted that as being potty trained.

DD was out of nappies at 2 years 8 months and had no accidents at all, she was also out of nappies at night one month later.

Every child is different.

My DDs are 23 and 19 and it does surprise me that now a days there seems to be a lot of 3 and 4 year olds still not toilet trained.
When mine were young, you couldn't start nursery unless you were out of nappies so almost every child was toilet trained by 2 years 9 months.

DD1 was just over 2 and we stayed at home for a week, and I focused on potties, wees and poos! Dd2 was only 18 months. She wanted to be like her sister, would take her nappy off at every opportunity and try to sit on the loo. So we got the potty out and she ran around with very little clothes on(it was a hot summer) and she was trained within a couple of weeks.

OPyou say you work full time, who is looking after Ds? Are you sure they are following the same approach as you? If not that would confuse him.

waxydaisy, I'm a bit confused. one of your children at 10 months old "asks for the toilet when they need it and doesn't have accidents"?

I stand by what I said that if a child is dry through the day at a particularly young age (by this I mean say 18 months and younger) then generally speaking it's the parents who are trained and not the child. This is not an insult! This does not mean a child is not ready to start toilet training but I don't believe a child this young can really be dry throughout the day by her or himself. Like everything I am sure that there are some exceptions.

I also said that its completely up to the parent as long as there is no pressure or shaming.

I don't see anything wrong with what my friend is doing. It suits her, there are no pooey nappies to change and she doesn't mind taking him to the toilet every half hour. But I don't think her child is toilet trained.

You really don't need to be so aggressive as I think my post was actually supportive and balanced and certainly not "rude or unnecessary" or attacking other people and their methods as yours was.

Nope not asking for wees at 10 months and not out of nappies either. That's not what I said. I said did all poss in the potty, and yes, by 11 months she said poo when she needed one and waited for the potty. If we were out and about she used to hang on until we got home. None of my others have done this at that age.

If you think I attacked me then report me and get it deleted. I did. Not. You have read into it the aggression you wanted to see.

I used to live in Central Asia. They don't use nappies there, and all their children wee and poo on the potty by 18 months, many of them by 1.

There are lots of factors
As babies, as soon as they have been fed, they take off their trousers or whatever and put a small pot under them. Most babies wee after being fed, so after few minutes they wee. As the child wees they them make a noise, usually a sort of hissing noise. The child comes to associate the noise with the action (a bit Pavlova dog ish) and so as they get bigger, they can make the noise and the child wees. I have also seen an 8 month old who grabbed himself when he needed to see and mum put the potty under. He was basically asking to wee.

Because they never use any type of nappy, the houses are covered in wet patches, which they just take as part of life (although very few people have fitted carpets, usually lino and a rug.) The use baby clothes differently - lots of 'trousers' and no babygros for example.

My American friend decided to try it and she had some success, but she wasn't prepared for wee everywhere and so she wasn't as early or as good at it as the locals. Her son was trained at around 18 months.

I do think there is a trend in the UK for waiting til 3 that I have never really understood, and I do think that is more to do with how difficult it is to train in houses with fitted carpets, with children who have worn fabulous super absorbent nappies since birth.

Because we were living in this culture, I potty trained early with ds. I remember that the first few weeks I watched him go through a process of being surprised that he was wet, to being wet and then saying wee, to being wet and running to potty, until finally he could choose to wee while on the potty. It then took him a long time to recognise the signal that he needed a wee, so I could keep him dry if I put him on the potty often enough.
That was true of a few friends where we were, I was never sure how much it was genuine training, or just that they weed on command, so if you put them on the potty often enough they stayed dry. (which doesn't account for the 8 month old asking obviously)

dd2 trained herself at 18 months. We were at my mums, in the summer, there was a paddling pool and she went and got a potty, put it next to the pool and then weed, paddled, weed paddled all afternoon, and she was trained. (not my initiative, hers)

sorry, bit long

Thanks for sharing that steppemum, really interesting.
ThisIsYourSong, I think the thing that's getting people's backs up is that you seem to be saying you disbelieve that young babies can ask for the toilet, when a number of posters in this thread have said their children did exactly that. DD was asking for the potty for poos before she could talk, she would walk into the bathroom and make raspberry noises.

I don't think anyone is lazy for training late - if anything I'm finding earlier training the lazier and more relaxed route because we have no aim or expectation of being "finished" in 2 weeks, we're just offering opportunities and following DD's lead. I do like to tell people about the possibility of early potty learning as I think a lot don't know it's possible, or like you think it's just the parents doing it.

waxy, from someone who hasn't posted you where a little harsh to op in your post I think.

On the potty training front, I think every child is ready at a different age. Then can be ready at 18months, but just because you take their nappy of doesn't mean they will train at this age. I tried my eldest at under 2years she really want ready, we just had wee accidents everywhere, and as we don't have wooden floors and whent out a lot it wasn't practical for me to stay in for weeks on end. I think putting them in nappies when out just confuses them, so didn't want to do half and half. We also use cloth nappies so mine have always been able to feel when they are wet and dry. She did potty train at 2 1/2 in three days she was dry, took a little longer for poos as she didn't like sitting down to do them.
My youngest isn't dry at 3 years yet, we've had three attempts and no look so far. He's a potty refuser and there is nothing I can bribe him with.

I do believe that a lot of really early trained children it's actually the parent that is trained not the child. My fringed did EC for a while then whent on to attempt very early training. It just involved a lot of accidents changes of cloths and hard work for her, which maybe fine if you have the time to do it or are willing not to go out much. I felt like she isolated herself a lot when she could have done with getting out. Her little girl was eventually reliably dry at 2 1/2 no earlier then my eldest, but with what seemed like a lot more hard work. This of course would never work for a child who isn't willing to cooperate. I think it's fine to try young but daft to carry on if they don't get it within a couple of weeks your just making more work for yourself.

If you are using disposables I don't get the argument for them sitting in wee either as they are designed so they don't feel wet at all. unlike cloth, but even using cloth its not helped train mine any earlier even though they can feel when they are wet.

Reading with interest, I would like to potty train DD early, but not sure what nursery would say, and apart from kitchen and bathroom, our house has fitted carpets.

No I'm not saying babies can't ask for the toilet. I'm saying they aren't usually dry all day before 18 months without the parent doing a lot of the work. I'm not saying always!

Here is an interesting article about the Asian way of training.

dd1 aged 21 months has just trained herself but definitely knew what she was doing. 2 weeks with bare bum at home over Xmas and nappys when we went out. 2 accidents in total.

fine with clothes on now both home and out. she asks to go with a particular sound and can wait until potty is out.

almost dry at naps and sleep too, we have had to put disposables on her then as cloth nappies with a wee in upset her.

to answer your op. if she had kept having lots of accidents I'd have said she wasn't ready and carried on with the nappies.

tbh I'm not sure it is easier without nappies given I'm still doing it with dd2. means we can't go in car for as long, taking potty everywhere. more up and down at the table.

but it wasn't up to me and she is def ready.

also I dont really care about wees on carpet.

We found our eldest's nursery were skeptical initially, and said they would want him back in nappies if there were numerous accidents a day. There weren't. He was 20 ish months, and had been off for 2 weeks. By the end of the fortnight he didn't have accidents unless it was longer than a couple of hours between loo trips and he was v absorbed in an activity. Most of the time he did ask, sign or grab his willy. He was in a room with plenty of 2-3 yr olds who were being trained, and the staff took them to the loo every hour and a half anyway. They were pleasantly surprised at how he coped and commented he was more reliable than many of the older children.

What counts as fully potty trained? Don't know, don't really care. There aren't any medals for passing the finishing line. If and when it's easier and more convenient for us to have DD in pants we'll go with that. Or if she insists on pants. Early training has been a big win for us, so I'd encourage others to have a go if that way inclined. If needing reminding occasionally means they're not fully potty trained then my 4 yr old still isn't, it doesn't seem to be disrupting his life or ours so who cares.

I don't understand some of the attacks on op and I think she was very clear about her reasons. I agree that we train babies to forget how to recognise that they have soiled themselves. It makes me sad that my ds used to be upset when he pooed his nappy but isn't anymore. I have effectively trained him to think that sitting in a pile of shit is normal. So when people say babies aren't ready to toilet train till much later I think the ec lot are right when they say this is only because we have trained them out of their natural awareness of their bodily functions. I wish I had found time for elimination communication, but a sick poor sleeper foiled my plans!

Good point about carpets etc steppe. Must admit idea of wee falling in between gaps in our old floor boards is putting me off trying ec at this later age!

I will be honest. Elimination Communication is a new one on me.

My best advice is to wait until your LO is ready, and by this I mean physcially ready in that he has sensation when he needs to poo or wee and can hold it until he is in the right environment.

When he is genuinely ready, you should be able to achieve it in a few days, without too much stress.

Good Luck.

"also I dont really care about wees on carpet."

Eww! I do. I kept DD in the kitchen until I knew she could tell when she wanted to use the potty.

but you haven't seen our carpet. in the middle of renovating. otherwise I might mind a big more. but really toddler wee is no big deal.