I truly think I have hit my limit with this. Help!!!

[RaPaPaPumPumBootyMum]

Hi. I have posted here before with the ongoing potty training trauma so will now try to be brief. But am feeling at the point of meltdown where I am either going to punish DS or give up entirely. I have had it!

DS1 is 3.2 yrs. I have attempting to potty train since he was just over 2 yrs. I have tried every method known to parents, DS is not motivated long term by sticker charts or chocolate buttons. However I ended up giving him a little toy car every time he weed in the potty and finally he seemed to have cracked it - that is he would wee in the potty if he had no underpants on, if they were on he would wee in them. And not be bothered by it, so would happily sit in wet underpants and trousers. So we went back and forth a bit between no pants at home and pull ups when out, then graduated to putting him in underpants whilst out and also taking multiple changes of clothes. Because he just wets in them. I ask and ask if he needs a wee, wants to go to potty or toilet and he says no, no and then wees in his pants. I stay calm and reiterate where wee goes and to tell me he needs a wee but he still does it again and again.

Now poo is another story. I have him in no pants at home. I can tell he wants to do a poo, lots of dancing around, crouching, whining... Does NOT want to do it in the potty or toilet. If he's not desperate to go but I know a poo is due I can coerce him into sitting on the potty to try but he doesn't produce anything then. So cue 5 - 10 minutes of DS dancing around and me trying to encourage him onto the potty and then the inevitable happens, he poos all over the rug [two days worth of poo actually so you can imagine!]. And says "clean it up mummy" and
This is the fourth day in a row he does this, although I thought some progress was being made as he actually pooed a little closer to the potty this time and I imagined he might have been trying to make a dash for it but just missed. And I said "You nearly made it, let's try again tomorrow" and DS seemed pleased with this.

But then, this is what tipped me over the edge. I clean the poo from the rug and come back from tipping turds down the toilet to see DS full on peeing all over the rug and laughing. Not a small dribble/possible accident but a full bladder, hips tipped back, outpouring all over the rug. And I wanted to KILL him. But I picked him up, told him he made Mummy sad, very naughty to wee on rug. And made him sit in the kitchen while I cleaned up again.

I hate potty training and am at the end of my tether. Just wanted to share that.

I have absolutely no advice and can give ne help (just posted myself to ask for help!) but just read your experience and wanted to say I would be pulling my hair out as well so you are reacting how I would - sounds very very frustrating!! I hope things progress positiely soon for you and DS.

Boys and their willys eh? Bloody things!

The problem is there is not one size fits all approach to potty training [as with most aspects of parenting I guess].

So I find myself trying all those tips and techniques which have worked for others in training their child, trying to find the magic key to potty training mine.

Believe me, I have done it all. Taken advice from friends, family, health professionals, childminder, nursery, you name it. And so far, although we have made small slow progress to DS weeing in potty whilst naked from waist down at home, we have not managed to crack using potty/toilet when he is fully dressed, or outside the home, or needs a poo.

Maybe my son is just slow in this area? Maybe it's a power struggle?
Health/Child professionals tell me not to worry, that it will happen eventually.
But oh my lord it's difficult.

And meanwhile I have people telling me how they trained their children under the age of 2, or in a week, or their child decided they didn't want to wear nappies anymore and trained themselves....

I wonder if I am using too much positive reinforcement, ie telling him well done for trying [when I can tell he really is trying] and should use a bit more negative reinforcement, ie leaving him dirty for longer?
I really don't know anymore. And tbh he's not that bothered by being wet anyway!

I could have written exactly this. I don't know what else to try either and it really makes my blood boil. Just wanted to say you are not alone

Hi, this sounds really really frustrating, no wonder you're getting furious. Well done for holding it together for so long.

I don't have wisdom really as I have no special experience in the potty training area, but wanted to ask - is there any reason why he has to be out of nappies right now? You could put him back in nappies for a while and try again when he's older and you're fresher perhaps?

I just posted on another thread too that I stopped asking DS2 'does he want a wee?' and just started saying 'we always go on the potty before we go out/when we wake up/when we get home' and getting regular times for going on the potty. If I asked him he would 9/10 times say he didn't need to go.

I wouldn't go for negative reinforcement.

Put him back in nappies, leave it a couple of weeks and then try again? Might be worth a try.
It is possible it is a control/attendion thing e.g. he is in control of the process not you. I experienced something similar with ds2. He was dry at nursery and when out and about. At home he would wee everywhere. Once weeing on the sofa saying look at me daddy Im weeing on the sofa.
So after a 6 month battle (and lots of advice)when we had been out for the day and he had been dry and used the toilet we walked though the front door looked and me weed on the front mat. So I explained to him very calmly that it was ok if he didnt want to use the toilet but Mummy was very tired from all the washing and clearing up wee so he would have to wear nappys again. He was very cross but after 2 days volutarily started using the potty again.
It was the one thing I thought I should not do but strangely it worked.
Also reccomment "Mr Poo goes to poo land" I think you can find it if you google it. Good Luck I hated potty training! Brought myself a lovely new handbag when it was all over!

Sorry I don't have any advice to give but just wanted to sympathise as I am going through something similar with my DS (3yr6mth) who has just done a poo in his pants. It's so frustrating. Sorry I can't help but like others above I just wanted to say you're not alone (all my friends seem to have breezed through potty training with their kids and everyone tells me it will all fall into place soon but it's just so miserable when all you seem to do is ask 'do you need a wee' constantly). Good luck!

Thanks for all your advice and thoughts.

I have just had it today. After my last post DS has now weed all over the sofa whilst laughing and I also found a wet patch [definitely wee, I sniffed it] when I was walking over the rug.

So it is like he is doing it when I am watching and I wonder if that is attention getting or a power struggle thing. But then he also does it when i am not there and I haven't seen him do it so what is that all about?

heather1, the problem with my DS is that he wants to be in nappies, he asks to be a baby and be in nappies [that is when he's not saying he's a big boy and doesn't want them ]. But i just asked him now does he want a nappy or does he want to use the potty and he said he wants a nappy so I have put him in a pull up.

PullUpAPew, I think he has to be potty trained to go to preschool? He's starting there in September and I think they said that they require child to be potty trained although they will of course deal with any little accidents along the way.

All my friends have potty trained their children successfully, even friends with far younger children. I feel like a failure and I really despair of DS ever getting potty/toilet trained, partly because I think he just really really doesn't want to do it and I can't seem to find a way to motivate him.

By the way I have been reading Poo goes to Pooland [and Pirate Pete, the Little Princess, Nappy Duck and Potty Pig, etc] to him for about a year!
He enjoys hearing them to a certain degree but they don't seem to motivate him unfortunately

Hi Rappapa, ahh you are not a failure. You sound like a patient Mum who knows her boy and his little ways very well. Maybe if he wants to be in nappies put them back on. It will take the pressure off you both. And later you can try again. September is some way off. A lot can change in a 3yo head in that time. They all get there in the end but boys can be a bit of a challange. Mine were never bothered about being wet but I know of little girls who said no more nappies mum knickers now and that was that.

RaPa I'm watching this thread with interest as DS is getting on for three and shows no signs of being ready to potty train, in fact he point blank refuses to sit on it and has no awareness of being wet or dirty.

Ate you certain about the pre school rules? I only ask because DS is also going in September and they are happy to change nappies at ours. Just might take some pressure off if yours agree too.

TBH, in your shoes I think I would go back to pull-ups for a month and then start again. I would put the potty away and just leave it for a bit, because it all sounds too stressful right now.

FWIW, DS didn't come out of pull-ups until over 3, and then only because I bribed him with an big radio-controlled car from Father Christmas if he gave up his nappies by then.

My Granny always said she despaired of ever getting my Dad potty trained.

One really bad day she saw the postman coming up the garden path and realised that he was potty trained- so one day my Dad would be too!!

He is now 62 and as far as I know manages to use the toilet every time

Your DS will get there too. Don't get too down on yourself.

I can sympathise too. I went through it last year. It was more with poos. He would poo his pants sometimes 4 times a day. I was at the end of my tether too.

One day just before his swimming lesson I asked him of he needed a poo and he said no. 2 mins later he did one in his trunks. I just lost it and shouted at him.

Since then he has been dry. Not sure if it was the shouting that helped but maybe it was. For quite a few weeks after that when we got to swimming he always went got a poo.

Good luck and I hope you crack it soon.

It might just be too early for him. And if you've been working on it with him since he was 2 you are probably both sick of it

in your position I would put him back in nappues, explaining that when he is a big boy he'll be ready to try again without them. I'd then not mention potties for at least a month, but subtly (!) talk to him about bonuses of being a big boy- oh look, x is doing that thing you love, do you think you'll want to do that when you're a big boy etc.

If there are reasons he wants to stay small, it's worth addressing those too IMO. Good luck, sounds like you're a lovely mum with superb patience!

He doesn't sound like he is ready. Some boys can take longer. My son is 3.5 and is only just starting to wee on the potty without multiple accidents a day. But I send him for a wee every hour roughly. Poo's is another matter and the urge comes on quickly and he seems so shocked half the time and says "oh no I did a poo". I bin the pants and carry on. Try not to let it bother me. He is slowly getting there

Neither of my children have potty trained easily and DD was in a nappy at night until 4.7 years old. So you're not alone.

He maybe picking up on the stress from you or enjoying the reaction. I really would go back to pull ups for a while for your sanity and until this "game" of his is forgotten about too

I didn't think they were allowed to say he 'has to be potty trained'? You need to get some advice on this point specifically I think - they'll know over on the SN boards or ask somewhere busy like chat.

Thank you all so much for your kind words and stories.

You have made me smile, particularly you debka with your Grandma's experience of potty training your Dad! That is also really enlightening as it sometimes feels as if the previous generations of Mums somehow magically had toilet training cracked, what with the stories of children then being trained by 12 mths or whatever it was

I think I am feeling particularly stressed today as I also have a clingy 16 mth old with chicken pox. So quite possibly DS1 is playing up a bit for a bigger share of the attention.

I will check with the preschool about sending him in pull ups as it would really take the pressure off [although I will keep trying to train till September].
I have taken breaks before in training over the past year as I felt he wasn't getting it. I have put him back in nappies when I felt it was getting too stressful for both of us. However the other day a friend told me that according to her nursery, this was the wrong thing to do. She said when you start potty training and taking child out of nappies you go cold turkey and carry on through the tough bits [and she trained her nearly 3 yr old DS in 2 weeks with this method] . So I guess this is what I was trying to do, push forward with no further regression. But maybe DS1 really is trying to tell me he isn't ready? But am I then one of those "lazy parents" always mentioned by some successful smugearly trainers on these potty horror threads? Those "incompetents" who do their child a massive disservice by not ensuring they can use a toilet independently by the time they are at school [or use cutlery correctly but that is another story!]

Angst, angst, angst...

Little ones now in bed and just pouring a large glass of

Forget pull ups and pants go back to proper lay down to put on nappies for 6 weeks or so to give yourself a break.

Of the other parents I personally know who had issues like this (non medical related) then what worked in the end was discipline, ie they lost it and told of their children and in all the cases - I can think of 3 different families that is what actually was the turning point.

Lots of well meaning friends and relatives saying he should be trained by now perchance? That adds to the pressure. Sod them. Have a break from it. September is a while away yet. Give yourself 6 weeks break from it. Lay down nappies is an ace idea.

RaPa- I really really really sympathise with you, in fact we are going through the same hell potty training issues too. My DD2 turned three in April, we have been potty training since August last year (10.5 months, not that I'm counting). She does all her pees in the loo and is dry at night, but she refuses to poo anywhere other than her pants. We tried putting her back in pull ups in Jan 2012 and gave her a good break. Didn't put her in pants again until mid-April. But it didn't work. This time I am going cold turkey and am going to keep her in pants until I crack it. Because I will. It is insane that a three year-old can have such power over an adult.

I really think in my DD's case it is an attention seeking thing. Her older sister is quite dominating. She is loud, funny, good at drawing, reading, swimming etc and I think DD2 might feel like the only time she gets guaranteed, 100% of mummy attention (albeit negative) is when she merrily does an enormous turd in her pants literally minutes after spending a good 10 minutes in the loo pretend pushing. No matter how many times I give myself a talking to about staying calm etc, it drives me mad every time it happens. And it happens about three to four times a day.

We have tried everything: stickers, chocolate, star-charts, ignoring accidents, praising success, mild punishment (black marks on the star chart), stories while she sits on the loo, talking about it, singing about it, getting her older sister to show her how she does it, and the results in the toilet. None of it has worked so far.

But I am not giving up. this is my plan of action at the moment, which you might find useful, although bear in mind none of it has actually worked at the mo (I am just living in hope that please, one day, soon, my child will poo in the loo).

1. 1/2 sachet of Movicol in the morning. She had started withholding poo, which was making her constipated. The Movicol prevents this, but it still means she poos her pants.
2. Keep a food/ poop diary listing what she eats and when she poos. We are on day 4 of this now and it is helpful to see the patterns.
3. Put her on the loo at regular times. I have set an alarm on my phone. She hears it and knows it's 'Poo Time' and will sit on the loo (this has not worked at the moment as she just poos in her pants minutes later but I think it is the right strategy).
4. Make sure she drinks lots and has lots of fibre (this was because she was getting constipated, but is worth following even if your child does not suffer from it).
5. Don't accept accidents. Show disappointment and explain there will be sanctions if she does it again but don't lose your temper. With my DD2 if she does more than three poos in her pants in a day she goes to bed with no story. We have been doing this for four days and I think the message is getting through. I know this goes against the grain of modern parenting techniques but if your child is old enough to understand consequences and you have been potty training for a few months then I think it is ok. See this fantastic book for more info: www.amazon.co.uk/Constipation-Withholding-Your-Child-Soiling/dp/1843104911/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339963229&sr=8-1
6. Pour yourself an enormous glass of wine when it all, invariably, goes horribly wrong and the pooey pants bucket is overflowing with lots of lovely washing.

Sorry for the rant, good luck!

I know how you feel. I tried from 2 year 8m and DS was only potty trained at 3yr 6m. It was very frustrating. In my experience the change to when he was ready was when he knew BEFORE he was having a wee. Until that point he just had many daily accidents and we got nowhere. My guess is that some kids are just ready later. DS was my fifth and none of my others were that late. When he was ready he did wee and poo and was dry all day using the potty himself. I would have a break for two weeks until he is using the potty at least half the time and knows when he needs to go.

My DD is reluctant to potty train. She is 3.6. She will start off wearing pants all morning but refuses to sit on potty or toilet with nothing on. I got in touch with Health visitor who is now working with us. Please note the health visitor does not seem worried about DD's age and the fact we thought she "is late" to learn.

Anyway the advice we have been given is "if DD asks to wear a nappy we have to let her" I was a bit to hear this. So we usually get to the afternoon and she will ask for a nappy. She does find though after she has worn one for a little while she wants to go back into pants so we let her.

The health visitor said "it's all about letting them be in control of it and they will get it one day"

What we find is that DD tends to hold on till bedtime (when we put her in a nappy) and then she does her poo's.

Hope this will help someone. It might take a long time but hopefully one day we will get there.

I totally sympathise with you. I'm at my wits end too. DS is 4 and starts school in September and although he doesn't wee over my sofa or rugs he will wet himself generally more than once a day. Yesterday he had 7 wee accidents!! I can see he's wet but he still won't go to the toilet. It is very frustrating and yes I also know lots of People that successfully trained their kids without any issues and it doesn't help that my parents think it wrong for him to be doing this. They keep telling me they've never heard of anyone experiencing the problems we're having (so that makes me feel great!). I think sometimes it's an attention thing. I have a dd who is now 21 months and is very chatty and has been out of nappies for a month and tells me when she needs to go and I think it's his way of getting my attention (but that doesn't explain 4 of his accidents happening at nursery yesterday).

I have no idea what to do with him and I know one day He will grow out of it but I would like that to happen before he goes to school!!

I sympathise massively...my elder DS's record was 7 poo accidents IN ONE DAY and I was demented. And it may be that your DS is just one of those who will be later to potty train than many children (which is fine, he'll get there) but I have to say that the deliberate weeing/pooing over the rug and sofa doesn't sound to me like a child not ready and having a genuine accident. Far more like a child being wilfully naughty. You are certainly not a lazy parent, you sound like the loveliest most patient mother but - in the nicest possible way - do you think you are being a bit too gentle with him? It does sound like he has turned it all into a massive let's-wind-up-Mummy game and I wonder whether a tougher approach might work. It's one thing to have a child who genuinely has a fear or difficulty with poos in the toilet who then does it in his pants or hides it behind the sofa. Quite another to have a child openly doing it all over the floor and saying 'clean it up Mummy'.

Tbh if this is the kind of thing that's happening a lot, I'd be tempted to try something along the lines of what ItalianDiva has suggested in terms of issuing sanctions for accidents. A friend of mine had major pooing issues with her DS - he was well over 3 - and it reached the point where it had as much of a behaviour issue as a toilet training one, kind of similar to what you've described. None of the positive reinforcement stuff made any difference whatsoever. So in the end, reluctantly, she went down the 'sanctions' route. At the time he was allowed an hour's TV after tea; she divided this into 6 x 10 minute chunks and for every accident, he lost 10 minutes TV. A poo accident meant no biscuits or pudding for the rest of that day. Of course in the first couple of days he got no TV, biscuits, pudding at all...it was tough...but boy it was amazing how quickly he got the message. And it was the only thing that worked for him.

Just wondering whether you could try something similar, using your DS's desire to 'be a baby and wear nappies' as a motivator (i.e. 'well it's fine to be a baby, DS, and yes of course you can have a nappy on and not use the potty.... but that means you can't play on the climbing frame, babies can't play on climbing frames can they....and no you can't have an ice cream, babies don't eat ice cream do they? and so on and so on.) Just a thought - I appreciate it's not a route that anyone goes down in an ideal world, but it really does sound as if you have tried absolutely everything else...

It sounds like you're in a bad state through no fault of your own. I would put him back in nappies and try really hard to FORGET about potty training. After a few weeks, he may voluntarily go for the potty or loo, if not you could try the motivation techniques again. But I find that the motivation techniques (star charts etc) only work for a little while - therefore after more than a year, no wonder you've got nothing left!

We are in a similar boat with ds (nearly 3).

He can use a potty or the toilet when he wishes (usually at bedtime) and sometimes at nursery but point blank refuses in the day and refuses to wear pants. All he says is I can't like pants mummy and screams for nappies.

And yet 2 months ago he was dry for 5 days in the daytime so we know he can do it but seems to be choosing not to.