I truly think I have hit my limit with this. Help!!!

[RaPaPaPumPumBootyMum]

Hi. I have posted here before with the ongoing potty training trauma so will now try to be brief. But am feeling at the point of meltdown where I am either going to punish DS or give up entirely. I have had it!

DS1 is 3.2 yrs. I have attempting to potty train since he was just over 2 yrs. I have tried every method known to parents, DS is not motivated long term by sticker charts or chocolate buttons. However I ended up giving him a little toy car every time he weed in the potty and finally he seemed to have cracked it - that is he would wee in the potty if he had no underpants on, if they were on he would wee in them. And not be bothered by it, so would happily sit in wet underpants and trousers. So we went back and forth a bit between no pants at home and pull ups when out, then graduated to putting him in underpants whilst out and also taking multiple changes of clothes. Because he just wets in them. I ask and ask if he needs a wee, wants to go to potty or toilet and he says no, no and then wees in his pants. I stay calm and reiterate where wee goes and to tell me he needs a wee but he still does it again and again.

Now poo is another story. I have him in no pants at home. I can tell he wants to do a poo, lots of dancing around, crouching, whining... Does NOT want to do it in the potty or toilet. If he's not desperate to go but I know a poo is due I can coerce him into sitting on the potty to try but he doesn't produce anything then. So cue 5 - 10 minutes of DS dancing around and me trying to encourage him onto the potty and then the inevitable happens, he poos all over the rug [two days worth of poo actually so you can imagine!]. And says "clean it up mummy" and
This is the fourth day in a row he does this, although I thought some progress was being made as he actually pooed a little closer to the potty this time and I imagined he might have been trying to make a dash for it but just missed. And I said "You nearly made it, let's try again tomorrow" and DS seemed pleased with this.

But then, this is what tipped me over the edge. I clean the poo from the rug and come back from tipping turds down the toilet to see DS full on peeing all over the rug and laughing. Not a small dribble/possible accident but a full bladder, hips tipped back, outpouring all over the rug. And I wanted to KILL him. But I picked him up, told him he made Mummy sad, very naughty to wee on rug. And made him sit in the kitchen while I cleaned up again.

I hate potty training and am at the end of my tether. Just wanted to share that.

runnin I think if he is saying he doesn't want to it is probably best to just go with the nappies for a while longer?

I think Italiandiva and dietcokes suggestion of sanctions could work. He wants nappies, fine, but he will have to put up with not having the benefits of being 3 of which there are many. I think he is quite capable, but at present doesn't want to be because both of you are sick of the business of getting him clean and dry. And at least you will get a break from the stress as well. I would be very matter of fact and as brief as possible when changing the nappies, no chatting or tickling, no eye contact nothing that makes it pleasurable at all, as some DC regard being changed as a guaranteed mummy attention getting time; you want to give him attention for doing the right things toilet wise.

I don't believe that a one off shout at a child who has tested you to the limits of your endurance is going to be everlastingly harmful, it's more the constant undercurrent of resentment and tension of having to clean up so much mess on a daily basis that does the damage. My response to a child who deliberately and laughingly wee'd on my carpet would be to hand them cleaning materials and tell them 'you made the mess, you clean it up' even at 3 yo. It sounds harsh, but he won't care what he does or where he does it as long as he doesn't have to deal with the consequences of his actions. In this case it would be not allowing TV/DVD/whatever he was playing with until he had made a good attempt at cleaning up.

I have been ashamed for 19 years how I handled DS2's not wanting to poo in potty or toilet. I shouted at him when I found a poo in the corner of the room. He was stunned and never did it again, but I still feel guilty. We are very close now btw, no lasting damage done. And this is the first time I've admitted it to anyone.

Sorry, that was the self indulgent bit. RaPa I wonder if he would hate terry nappies enough? Pull ups do seem to be very comfy.

My sis told me she started using 'eco' nappies when her ds3 started battling her on potty training - she said Pampers etc were just too comfortable, and that he disliked the Eco ones so much it helped push him out of nappies.
My DS is only 14mo so I'm just reading this for future reference! You all sound like you have the patience of saints. :)

Just wanted to say you are not alone (as all these replies show). We've been potty training our DS since he turned 3 (after a failed attempt at 2.5) and after 6 months I am finally seeing some progress (makes me want to cry with relief posting that). We tried everything - sticker charts, toys, telling off - but nothing seemed to stick. It drove me to tears and wanting to punch the wall! Seemed that all his friends trained much earlier and much easier. Wondered about giving up and waiting but after a couple of months couldn't bear to waste what we'd done and were advised to keep going. He got poos quite quickly (just shows how different they can be) but couldn't get wees. Cue six months of wet clothes and me begging, pleading, threatening to try and get him on the potty. But just in the last week has started to stay (mostly) dry and started to say 'I need a wee' and take himself to the potty/toilet.

Don't have any specific advice as they're all different but just to stay strong and it will happen.

Btw threads like this are fantastic for giving us all the confidence to accept our DC are individuals. All those smug parents whose dc potty trained in a week must be the same as those whose dc slept through from 3 weeks old!

I used to think that it must be the parents fault if their dc was still in nappies at 3/4 (or not sleeping properly, or picky eating, or blah blah blah), and then I had my own child, and realised that it appears to be largely down to the luck of the draw, and not a lot to do with the parenting after all. :)

Not quite DontTell, mine slept through at 5 days and 3 weeks :)

DS1 was not reliably dry at night till 12yo though :(

Ah but nemno do you think it was def something you did, or that you happened to be blessed with good sleepers? :)

Weeelll at the time I thought I was supermum

But I had no one to be smug to as I knew nobody else with babies and thought it was quite normal.

I am going to cry with joy, just to meet you all.

My youngest is going to 4 in 3 months time. And he refuses all the attempts we have made at potty training ( since Easter but been lightly chatting about it for a year now).

We get comments now from 'well meaning' people as he is a tall kid and looks older than he is.

He has had medical issues so I knew he was likely to be older than his peer group in this area of development.

I cannot decide if he just doesn't realise the sensation of weeing or it's because he is a very stubborn child and this is just yet another of his life he controls. And typing this - I am convincing myself it's his stubborn personality.

Run out of tactical ideas. He tells me he will do it when he has Ben10 pants, Superman pants, Star Wars pants etc.... We have 36 pairs of ffffing pants.

What are these Eco nappies? I think that is my next tactic.

dietcokeandwine I can see where you are coming from...

However the wind-up Mummy game [weeing on rug and sofa] only really lasted a day or two [and coincided with his 16 mth old brother having chickenpox and getting a lion's share of the attention].

Generally I can tell that DS1 is trying and wants to please me [he's actually said I just want to make you happy Mum when he's had another accident and sees my crestfallen face].

He is generally now getting his wees in the potty when he's at home [and with no pants on]. If I put underpants and trousers on he still just wees in them. He is not physically uncomfortable with the wet pants so this is not a deterrant.

If he genuinely needs a poo he gets very anxious and tries to hold it in [if in no pants]. If he has a nappy or pants on he will do it in that [again, this does not make him uncomfortable so not a deterrant unfortunately]. he knows that he gets a chocolate button or a small toy if he poos in the potty and so at times he will go to the potty and sit there forever grunting and groaning trying to squeeze one out. Sometimes he even succeeds and produces a miniscule turd... which he gets praise and applause for

To me it seems a bit like wanting to be in control of the process and a bit like still being somewhat clueless about when he actually needs to do a wee or poo [hence denying it when it is happening and trying to force it when he doesn't really need to go].

The one big breakthrough now seems to be he is now asking to wear underpants whereas before he would always choose nappies if given a choice... So progress is being made, just very very slowly!

Thanks so much to all of you who have responded and shared your stories of reluctant potty trainers. I really do feel better and calmer about it now... And not so alone!

Oh right. So it's just a battle of wills is it? Well I've been battling for 19 long months. If it was that easy DD would be trained by now. FFS.

It wasn't defensive it was offensive. I found your post smug.

Lubilee I wish it were as simple for me and my DS to use "tough love"

I feel i have done the firm thing with minimal success and just more upset from DS. Then gone back to breezy "never mind, try and get it in the potty next time", to asking DS why he doesn't want to use the potty/toilet [which gets a garbled response of he wants to but doesn't want to. Which i guess does make sense, he is basically unsure and wary which comes across loud and clear]. To giving praise and rewards, to seeming unconcerned, to reading Poo goes to Pooland ad nauseum...

The problem is DS not really being able to articulate what he wants or needs and my having to interpret/guess!

yesterday for example we were out shopping and it became obvious that DS needed a poo [was looking increasingly strained and frantic and dancing about]. So I asked Dh to take him to the toilet as i was with the younger DS. Of course once he got there DS1 denied needing the toilet and was brought back out again. About five minutes later he did a mad dash around the shop and disappeared from view. I said to DH, he's gone to do his poo and yep sure enough, massive poo in pants when we found him [luckily he was in pull ups which made the cleaning easier for us but it makes no difference to DS, he would just as easily poo in underpants].

I have gathered that DS likes privacy to poo so have asked him where he would like his potty. he wants it in the living room but wanted it beside the sofa next to the wall where it is partially hidden. So we will see if this makes a difference.

He is now consistently getting his wees in the potty if he is at home with no pants on. If I put him in nappy or underpants he will just wee in them, makes no effort to pull them down to get to the potty.

If he needs to poo when he has no pants on he gets increasingly agitated and denies needing to poo until either the inevitable happens and he poos all over the floor [which he has done numerous times and then gets upset about it but the upset doesn't stop it happening. He does not seem to be upset that he had an accident, rather that he couldn't stop this disgusting stuff from coming out iyswim] or I ask him does he want the potty or a nappy and he will say "nappy!", I get him the nappy and he poos in it. I have tried laying the nappy in the potty and asking him to poo on that whilst sitting on potty but he is having none of it.

As i have said, he is now 3.3 years and it is slow slow progress. He is a stubborn little boy and it is a battle of wills, not only between myself and DS but also between DS and his own body!

I just wonder if he will ever decide to completely use the potty or toilet before he goes to preschool in September. Otherwise i will be asking preschool to let him go pantless in the classroom with a potty next to his chair and to give him a chocolate button each time he successfully wees in it!

Lubilee, it really doesn't help that your LO didn't sleep until after he was 2. That's just a different sort of hell! I feel for you as sleep depravation is torture.

I accept you weren't being smug, my PMS got the better of me the last couple of days.

However, I've yet to find someone in RL who really understands how hellish it is having an incontinent child. A few months is one thing, but 19 months is just unbearable at times. All of us who are struggling have tried every method known to attempt to solve our LOs toilet habits and in our case not one has worked, ever. I cannot remember DD being dry for more than 2 days in a row. I remember on well meaning friend saying last summer not to worry as she'll be fine by the time she goes to school. Well she won't as it's only couple of months away.

We're off to the hospital this week to see a consultant. But there just never feels like there is light at the end of the tunnel.

hi peeps

i bet it is infuriating for parents to tell you how they managed to potty train their kids in half an hour etc... i will give some advice as to what i did but obviously i havent got a clue exactly what everyone has tried :) i just hope it helps a little

www.amazon.co.uk/Toilet-Training-Less-Than-Day/dp/0671693808/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341839725&sr=8-1

the above link is for the book i bought for my little girl. i potty trained her at 2 because i wanted to go camping so it was a completely selfish time to do it. i bought the book, a potty and a peeing doll and i read the book a couple of times and then tried to follow the instructions. the first day is incredibly stressful and boring as you have to lock yourself in a room with your lo on your own with no toys/ tv etc... it is a necessity for the book apparently and it did seem to slowly work... the secodnd day she completely refused to use the potty and peed everywhere on purpose and it was defo on purpose but i stuck with it and refused to put nappies on her... the third day she seemed to realise that i wasnt messing and i started giving her stickers not on a chart but stuck to her when she peed on the potty (she loves stickers) and they lasted longer than chocolate lol.

she has now been potty trained for 3 months... she is a little monster sometimes, she wont pull her own pants down as she is lazy but she will tell me when she needs to pee and poo. we take a potty out with us and she tells me in the car etc and we no longer have any accidents although she does now hold her pee for longer and she gets slightly damp pants when she wont go pee because of something she is doing...

no idea if anyone else has tried the book and it was the most horrendous 3 days of my life but i was determined not to cave in to her. no idea if this is helpful for anyone but i hope it might be xxx

good luck to people xxx

ps.... im sure the book wouldnt work for everyone... and i am certainly not saying that people arent trying hard enough or anything... she took to the book so it might be somethng to try if people havent tried it x

Soupmaker...

your issue does seem a lot more complicated than a grouchy child or a little bit stubborn... i really hope that the doctors can give you some help/advice etc as child incontinence is a real issue and very different to kids just being a pain in the preverbial xx good luck hon

You guys are angels. I so should have read this 2 months ago!

We started potty training our dd after Christmas 2011, when she was 2.2 and things were fine for a month or 2 but then it all started to fall apart. She regressed and I tried every positive trick in the book to bring it back but it was always one step forwards, two steps back.

I tried so hard to stay positive. But in the end it was just too much. She is a very stubborn and manipulative girl (aren't we all ;o)) and since I know she was perfectly capable of controlling herself, I couldn't help but feel she was doing this purely to wind me up.

How you lasted 19 months soupmaker I don't know - you are a stronger person than me because I snapped after 5 months: after one particularly bad poo, her refusing to admit it, and having the gall to ask me, as I scraped it off her bum "are you happy mummy?", I broke down. I shouted at her, I bawled my eyes out and put her back in nappies calling her a baby. I feel awful now, but we were going through some other issues at the time (perhaps she knew this, which is why I don't regret going back to nappies) and I just didn't have the strength left to play mind games with her.

I've left it a couple of months now, but September is nearing and I also have to get her in pants by the time she moves up to the next room in nursery. Life is a bit more stable now, which should help, and she is showing interest again. She has asked to wear her pants but I stress that she can only wear them when she's ready to do ALL her wee's and poo's in the potty. I've got an arsenal of stickers and chocolate buttons in the cupboard and we're going for it cold turkey, pants only on Thursday.

My strategy this time will be to leave it up to her, since she has a pretty predictable pattern of refusing to do anything I suggest or tell her to do. There will be the usual massive praise, treats etc for doing it right, but accidents will be met with no eye contact, a simple phrase like "never mind, next time try to make it to the potty", but NO MORE. You read that children of all ages act up because they learn it's the best way to get attention, and I certainly believe that was an element of what she was doing, so I will make sure there is minimal attention for 'accidents'.

Failing that I may resort to punishment. We'll see how it goes... Anyway, I'm just really glad to find some people in a similar situation despite them showing all signs of 'being ready'. Despite what debka's Granny says, I do think there are certain personality types that really would prefer to wear a nappy their whole lives unless someone forced them!