Women's bodies an afterthought during childbirth?

[ShrimpingViolet]

I posted this in chat yesterday but in retrospect it was probably the wrong place. Long time user, recently name changed.

Wondered what the thoughts of MN are on maternal care. My DD was born by c section earlier this year - she was a huge baby, back to back, induction failed to progress. I requested the section after stalling at 5cm and faced a huge battle with consultants. Now, I understand the NHS is under pressure to keep the number of sections down for many good reasons.

But my baby was too big to come out and I was told later it would have ended in an emergency section, possibly after failed forceps delivery which could have left me with a severe tear and lasting damage, not to mention the risk to DD.

I was made to feel stupid for asking for the section, like I was making a fuss and had just 'chickened out' of natural labour.

I've since read countless threads on here from woman who have been left with horrendous injuries and offered very little support - many of which could seemingly have been avoided if more attention had been paid to their concerns and frankly, their bodies.

It makes me angry that so many mothers have been treated this way and left to then get on with the gruelling process of taking care of a newborn.

I'm sure not all hospitals are like this and nor are all aspects of care - I found the midwives who looked after me incredible.

But far too often it seems women are ignored and treated almost as an afterthought in the process of having a baby.

Sorry for the long post - it's an issue that's been on my mind and wanted to hear others' views. I'm also due a debrief with the hospital soon.

Hi OP

I know what you mean, I still feel the same and my LG is nearly 5 months. I do hope you find closure with your debrief, are you taking anybody with you? I had mine around 2 months ago and it did help with closure.

I had a rough time in pregnancy (which was never taken seriously, very bad sickness throughout) and then I developed pre eclampsia at 38 weeks. I'm sure it was earlier as it was only caught at a routine appt. I was induced 2 days later as my BP went sky high and had an awful time. I knew something "wasn't right" I wasn't dilating but had the contractions coming constantly. I asked about a section but was shot straight down, wasn't really given the time to even communicate why. I was constantly being sick too hooked up to a drip to even argue. Finally after all night, I was 2cm and they gave me an epidural (for the pain and to lower my BP) and broke my waters. I managed to contract Sepsis and was rapidly going down hill and baby was in distress (I don't really remember much) other than the doctors telling me I'm having a section but then I was 10cm so forceps was Used. I remember getting pulled down the table. It was awful. I had a 1.2 litre blood loss, cut and 2nd degree tear, kidneys failing, a retained placenta (which almost landed me in surgery) however dr managed to remove it as my epidural worked really well. it was surreal it literally went from my DP, mum and midwife in the room to having a full room of doctors, surgeons and midwives all staring at me with my legs fully up. I was out of it. When my daughter was born I'll never forget her blank look at me without making a single noise. I was screaming why wasn't she making a noise and the dr telling me it's normal and that she has.

I spent 5 nights in hospital and had regular midwives coming out to see me afterwards.

When I had my debrief meeting the mental side of what I've described was completely over looked. The consultant was very much like "that's what needed to be done and look you're okay" kinda attitude. Which got my back up, I explained several times how it felt. She told me straight away to not consider a section if I had anymore children. I do want another baby and it will likely be C Section there is no way I can put myself through that trauma again if it could be an emergency section anyway. I'd maybe consider a vaginal birth if I had no issues but ultimately I don't think it's acceptable for the consultant to sit there dictating how I feel, how well I look (because I've managed to put make up on vs hospital!) and guilt tripped into even thinking about a section!

I too am grateful to the midwives and doctors when I was actually giving birth , they were brilliant. I think personally there needs to be huge change on post natal wards, did you stay in long after your section? I spent 3 nights in there (first 2 I was in my own room) and what an experience that was. It was making me worse which resulted in me self discharging, I had a check up the next day and funnily enough I was much better. I was next to a couple who literally smoked the entire time, the room stunk of stale smoke, them two coughing all over and leaving the baby to go for walks. Terrible experience.

My god @Anyat212 that sounds utterly awful. You poor thing. This is exactly what I mean though, it sounds like your request for a section was just dismissed without your concerns even being listened to.

I'm glad your debrief was helpful, but the consultant sounds awful. Can't help thinking attitudes would be different if it were men getting routinely damaged and then being made to feel like they were making a fuss over nothing. Did they say you shouldn't consider a section if you had another baby?

I'm not sure I'll be able to take anyone with me to the debrief as my DP works long hours and has a long commute. But want to go in fully armed with what to say to make sure I don't forget anything.

Oh and I didn't spend much time on the post natal ward...I was discharged after 24 hours. But I got very little help and support during that time, particularly with breastfeeding, mainly because the staff were so overstretched.

I told them dc1 was stuck on the saturday night. My waters had gone on Friday the 13th, labour followed quite quickly but it just didn't feel right and I knew he was stuck. I was essentially patted on the head and told not to be so silly. He was finally delivered by emergency section on the tuesday morning after I finally got fully dilated, pushed for several hours and then they tried to pull him out with forceps.

I was very lucky in that I bounced back physically (mentally is a totally different story for many reasons) but my son had to go to NICU.

What frustrates me is that I heard "listen to your body" so many times before labouring and when I did, I was repeatedly told I was wrong only I wasn't. I ended up under the care of a pyschriatrist, my son ended in NICU and my husband thought at one point in theatre he was losing both of us.

I’ve just had my second large baby, she was a vbac. My consultant was dead against it and spent lots of time talking to, showing me research papers and making himself available at different times to discuss it. Eventually I booked a section for 39. I did turn down induction that he offered at 38 weeks but started sweeps at 37 weeks. Definitely he did not want me to try and labour but he listened to me, discussed it and supported me. Not all dr are like this.

Hi Op, I know how you feel too.
I had my DD 10 weeks ago at Salisbury. My waters broke at 2am Sunday morning and I was contracting really really strongly from the start, but the hospital sent me home as I wasn't dilated. We went back at 11pm on the Sunday night as the contractions were still really strong and they admitted me (I was 2cm). Fast forward to 8am Monday morning and I was still only 2cm with strong contractions, so they put me on an oxytocin drip. However, I have a physical disability all down one side so I really wanted a section at this point as I was exhausted from the contractions which were, in the words of the consultant "doing nothing ". The consultant refused, and said she wouldn't let me "wimp out" of the hard part. I stayed on the drip until 5pm, when a new consultant told me I was ready to push. I pushed between 5-6pm and then a 3rd consultant came in, did another exam and concluded I still wasn't dilated enough (8cm), so should never have pushed.
I went back on the drip until 8pm, then was examined again and told to push. They couldn't get the baby out, so I went to theatre and had a forceps delivery with spinal. My DD was born at 8:31pm on the Monday, and I then had an episiotomy, and a 2 litre blood loss. I spent 3 days in hospital and the first consultant who came back to see me the next morning said "well, it all worked out okay".
Since her birth, I've had 2 post partum infections, and have such painful stomach aches all the time now.
Salisbury have not even offered me a "debrief", and my GP told me to "move on" and concentrate on my daughter.

I might get slammed but I feel post natal care has gone backwards. When I had my first baby in early 1980s I had to spend minimum 7 days in hospital (c section 14 days), there was round the clock advice helping you through the early stages if being a mum, dealing with breastfeeding, post natal exercises for mum. With my second I was in for 3 days in a different part of the country, to give you a rest before going home. Midwives are so stretched in the community it must be impossible to provide the care that is needed to everyone. I spent 12 hours with my daughter when she was in labour 5 years ago, everyone was caring but she wasn’t making progress and left her 30 hours before a c section then discharged her 3 days later. C section is major abdominal surgery and in my opinion release from hospital is too quick.

I had better breast feeding support in the community than in hospital.

I think I was extremely lucky and had very good postnatal care. My baby had to spend the first few days in NICU and then a further few days on the general postnatal ward with me so I was kept in when I didn't need to be to allow for breastfeeding etc. I was really lucky with this and had great support from the nurses/midwives in breastfeeding as I was unable to bf my baby the first few days due to him being on ventilation. However I know that my experience isn't the typical postnatal experience (even within the same ward I've heard differing opinions). If my baby didn't have to stay in then I imagine my postnatal care wouldn't have been half as good (tear requiring surgery), but even the community midwives have been great. Only thing I've been disappointed in is that the 6 week postnatal check is no longer offered as standard in my area, which I think is ridiculous as the reasoning is that women will see their GP if there is a problem, but I think that some women will not approach their gp if they have 'embarrassing' symptoms or mental health issues which could be picked up by a friendly chat (this is my opinion anyway!)

I agree not all doctors are like this, I'm sure it does differ from hospital to hospital and even individual staff.

But I have read so many awful stories, on MN alone, of women not being listened to and ending up with severe problems as a result, both physical and mental.

I'm shocked by the "wimping out" comment, @MidgetRed, I think that's terrible. @Dinosauratemydaffodils, I'm so glad your DS is okay but what you went through sounds horrendous and very much following the same "pattern".

@Poppyfr33 and @Capybaras, it's interesting the changes in care. My MIL also spent a week in a community hospital getting support, and I am surprised some areas have done away with the six week check. Mine wasn't much to write home about but it felt like it was needed.

I understand the NHS is stretched to breaking and fully understand why the same level of care can't be offered due to tight budgets and extra pressure, but this feels more than that. It feels like in a lot of cases, women are routinely facing battles just to be heard and taken seriously. And it's crazy to me. It's still one of the most dangerous things a woman can do in her life.

I agree. You hear it all the time in the “as long as the baby’s OK that’s all that matters” rhetoric.

The pain relief in labour situation is a joke in many places and the postnatal 'care' isn't there. There's no way men would ever be expected to get up and fetch their own water and food hours after major abdominal surgery or major medical procedures on their genitals, or expected to share a hot, stinking ward with its occupancy doubled by total strangers of the opposite sex and share the toilet with them, too. Just NFW. Or put up with a couple of paracetamol tablets for pain relief after huge abdo surgery.

Agree @timshelthechoice. A friend of mine was literally told off for ringing the bell for help when her baby was crying, despite the fact she lost over half her blood in a massive haemorrhage and nearly died and couldn't get out of bed. The more I read the angrier I feel.

I might get slammed but I feel post natal care has gone backwards. When I had my first baby in early 1980s I had to spend minimum 7 days in hospital (c section 14 days)

I think this is so individual. I've had 2 emergency sections and I can't imagine anything worse than being expected to spend 14 days in hospital unless I was seriously ill. I stayed 3 nights with dc1 (only because I was ever so slightly mad and they weren't convinced I'd come back if they discharged me whilst he was in NICU) and 1 night with dc2 and that was perfect for us. I didn't need anything other than observations, I was up and about as soon as the spinal wore off and would have been a waste of a bed.

I think offering as an option especially to first time mums would not go amiss though.

I had a very similar birth to you OP; huge DD, back to back, failure to progress but since I am massively needlephobic, I was dead against a c-section and they kept trying to persuade me to have one.

I did end up with a c-section and feel very lucky that the team there decided not to bother with forceps as DD was so utterly stuck. I had the spinal block, lost 1.3lt blood and was exhausted from the three days of labour.

I was out of hospital within 36 hours after coming out of theatre as I had to walk for my own lunch so they decided I was fine to go home. Luckily I recovered well and hated the hospital ward so it was the right choice for me but it was ever so short.

Agree postnatal care is shocking in some areas. I was lucky to be able to go back to my freestanding midwife unit after a night in hospital after my c section. I spend a further 3 nights recovering on a quieter ward with great breastfeeding support. The unit is almost permanently facing the threat of closure. Where I live now this is not an option.

I would urge everyone to try and get involved in you local Maternity Voices Partnership and have your say on improvements to maternity and post natal care.

You only have to see all the comments on mn about how all that matters is a baby at the end of it. It isn't just doctors that think this.

@ShrimpingViolet

Yes i agree if it was men - attitudes would be different! I probably was naive going in to it but I never really was aware of the repercussions of forceps, episiotomys or tearing. I'd heard of them but didn't have much knowledge on them. Saying that though, I could have googled during pregnancy. I do however, think there should be more awareness, I really thought my labour would be blissful!

I was shut down about the section straight away and when it was almost an emergency one I just couldn't believe it. I knew something wasn't right the bloody night before!

Yeah the consultant told me a vaginal birth would be the best option if I had another child. She told me the risks of a section too. As I was high risk last time, I will be closely monitored during pregnancy next time. She also recommended that I speak to somebody (I can't remember the name) to discuss the concerns I have with a vaginal birth again.

I took my mum to my debrief as my partner worked long hours too. I never thought about bringing anyone until I read something on here saying that people recommended taking someone with you for support. Maybe you could take a friend / family member etc?

Ah breastfeeding as well! That was another reason I discharged early I did receive help but as you say they are over stretched. I just wanted to bond with my baby in private. The hospital I was at apparently had a breastfeeding specialist but I never came across them when I was there.

@Dinosauratemydaffodils I completely agree with your comment on "listening to your body" I did too and was shut down. It's all wrong.

I had a similar experience to you op in that my very large baby was back-to-back. I also had horrendous SPD from 28 weeks and couldn't walk for the last 4 weeks of my pregnancy. I asked for a c-section and was referred to a consultant, who told me no. After a lot of discussion, during which my concerns were entirely dismissed and generalised statistics quoted at me, my husband asked the consultant to explain all of the risks of a vaginal birth and the benefits of an elective c-section and for me personally (I'm an older first time mum, along with the SPD and the back-to-back large baby) the likelihood of needing forceps and she told me around 45%. After I told her I would not consent to forceps under any circumstances and neither would my husband in a situation where I couldn't consent myself, she relented and booked the c-section, though made it clear she disapproved. And I'm still convinced that if my husband hadn't been present, she would never have agreed to it.
Post c-section, I faced another battle for pain relief, when they attempted to discharge me within 24 hours of having the op with paracetamol. I refused to leave without morphine and again, was treated like I was totally unreasonable.
So I didn't have a bad experience in the end (it was actually wonderful) but I had to put up a fight. And that shouldn't be the case really...

I totally agree about the care declining, my mum was furious I was discharged less that 24 hours after an emergency c section.
I was admitted on my due date for a large baby, refused c section as I didn't fit their Criteria.
Five days later after failed forceps my 10.8 son arrived via emergency c section. I actually asked my husband if I was dying whilst I fell asleep in theater due to exhaustion.
Mentally, a year it took me to recover. I had two infections in my scar which terrified me due to a new mum who shared my midwife dying of sepsis.
Eventually we went private for closure and the doctor was horrified with what I'd been through and said I must have an elective c section next time, he even said he will fight my case should I receive negativity.
It's terrifying what some people have to endure.

I had similar happen OP.. I knew it would end in section anyway so why risk so much stress and injury. I don't know why they don't opt for sections sooner in these situations. I was also made to feel like a child for requesting one, I felt so small.. a time when women are at their most vulnerable and they made me feel like shit. I just kept pushing though because I knew I would never see these people again and I would have to live with my body afterwards. So glad I felt confident enough to ask. I got a planned section for my second too.

Yes and it is disgusting! I contracted in the water up to 10cm on gas and air, when it came to pushing it was absolute agony; I said I couldn't cope and that I knew something was wrong but kept getting 'its birth, of course it hurts'. Fast forward 3 hours of excruciating agony (I actually thought I was dying at one point) and baby still hadn't arrived. Another midwife came at shift change, took one look and booked me for emergency forceps as baby was back to back and stats terrible. She asked why I hadn't gone through earlier and the MW said 'i thought she was just not good with pain'. The midwives in recovery were very dismissive as well.

Because it was left so long and I was essentially contracting every 30 seconds for hours with baby bouncing around trying to travel down the birth canal the wrong way; I had so much damage to my uterus they were close to having to give me a hysterectomy. As it stands the surgeons were amazing and managed to save it but it is damaged and any future pregnancies would be risky. I am so thankful that baby was okay, of course- but also that despite everything I am too. I think people forget about the woman often enough.

I'm really sorry and angry to read so many people have had similar experiences. The disregard so many health professionals seem to have for women's bodies during the process is horrifying.

@CookPassBabtridge (love the name) I could have written your post myself - I was terrified of the state I knew my body would be left in if I didn't insist. And was made to feel utterly unreasonable throughout, despite being right.

I was told I could "refuse forceps" if it got to the point where they were needed. Essentially I could take a decision that would have potentially put DD in danger. Ridiculous and maddening.

There was one thing on my birth plan: no forceps. DS got stuck, they pressured me into agreeing to forceps, he was left with a cut in his head which left a scar and I was left with birth injuries that required surge 8 months later and still causes issues now, nearly five years later. If I ever get pregnant again, I’m having a c section if I have to do it myself.